I think the biggest change Australia is undergoing is that of changing from a nation of ONE people to a nation of TRIBES, each with it's own culture and set of laws ,many of which are objectionable to ordinary Australians .
But these tribes use the reason that this land is Multi Culture therefore they are entitled to live their own culture because that is what drew them here.
Who can say that is not what was intended when there has never been anything set down to say that Multiculture means if you come to Australia, you live as an Australian.
Newcomers will say that they despise Australian ways, they did not come here to be Australian.
And when this country dissolves into tribal fighting as it surely will,who will stand up and take the blame?

Boaz, I am constantly impressed by your ability to conduct a discussion at great length that is entirely tangential to the topic at hand.

And every so often you throw in a reference or a quote that piques my interest - so when you wrote

>>Do you know the meaning of those words "mene mene tekel upharsin" ?<<

...I simply had to follow it up.

Of the many - and varied - interpretations I came across, this one stood out:

"The question now arises as to the grammatical construction of these words. According to Theodotion, Jerome, and Josephus ("Ant." x. 11, § 3), they are substantives; but according to the Septuagint they are verbs in the perfect passive, which, owing to their vocalization, are difficult of explanation. Clermont-Ganneau, in a long article on this subject ("Journal Asiatique," series 8, viii. (1886), 36 et seq.), first advanced the opinion that they are names of weights, namely, a mina, a shekel, and a peras, which last-named in the Talmud means a half-mina (comp. the expression in 'Eduy. iii. 3), and that may be the dual form, "two half-minas." Thus the mina would be an allusion to Nebuchadnezzar; the shekel, which in value is a very small part of the mina, to Belshazzar; and the two half-minas to Media and Persia (comp. Ta'an. 21b). But as this interpretation does not show how the words predicted the fall of Babylon, Clermont-Ganneau admits the possibility of the first two words being verbs, but suggests that the | should be affixed to the preceding word, which may be vocalized either , "they weighed," or , "weigh"; in either case having as its direct object"

[the actual symbols themselves haven't survived the copy/paste - sorry about that]

I found the analysis interesting, but I am still curious.

What is your opinion? And where do you see the "similarities to CEO's of today"?

To All

Over the next couple of days and nights, we will be assailed by documentaries in memorium of 9-11.

I will be surprised if they don't all sing from the same hymn book.

Marlene and I just watched a new one, which is the greatest collection of "lost" footage we ever saw. Please put this on your list sometime soon. Above all else, see Bush's expressions and listen to what he says. I promise you won't be disappointed.

Takes nearly two hours. If just one person out there finds cause to question their pre-conceived beliefs, it will be worth it:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1016720641536424083&q=press+for+truth

Sorry to hijack the topic again...

Cheers.

Hey CC from C what do you mean we have been lied to over the last few years. I just heard a bell go off. I've read about Mr 60% promising to build the Alice to Darwin rail link in 1983. That's more than a few years ago. It's 23 years ago, ain't it?

We are evolving: Ditto Tony, you struck me core mate.

I am someone who has had to understand if not adopt every other "blend" of culture, except the one I want, which is my own.

My story is about the eve of post war generations (forced to flee Austria) and this inter-generational form of displacement, a ongoing phenomenon in this modern world.

It is these things that lead me to "... think about issues of personal accountability for the deeds and complicities of one’s own government.", as we all do if civic partipation is to be promoted as something real.

My own identity didn't really bug me until recently... until I made the decision that I was not going to make myself "conform" to any ocka spin politically, anymore. Especially when I believe something is wrong.

For me the "dramatic" change in Australia began during 1989. It is a wave of things that includes as you said;

"No one could seem to agree on what our national values were any more: we no longer could even find agreed meanings for words, there had been so much spin already that many of our most important words now had to be put in quotation marks when we used them. (Think about: “work choices”, “tolerance” , “mateship”, “fair go”, “national cohesion”, “national pride”, “national security”, “sovereignty”, “war on terror”, “integrity of our borders”, “security risk”, “conscience vote”, “moral issues”, “sustainable economic growth”, “processing”.)"

Given I then decided to study more... in an attempt to understand more... I now realise that is my own cultural experiences that are at the heart of who I am, the subjective key, to how I may percieve certain things. i.e the destruction of war, needless poverty and social justice.

I think if you come from somewhere else, (especially a previous war zone....) the chances are, you are less likely to see things exactly the same as someone who has lived in the same place, all their life... as vice versa.

With people of good will, hopefully our evolution will be towards a Just society that preserves our Liberties and ceases to create enemies through alliances with modern day Empire builders.
We need a society that values personal human development, provides services to promote good health and wellbeing without degrading our environment.
Tertiary education should be accessible to all who qualify without the imposition of substantial debt and the wasteful expenditure on Toys of War should cease, maintaining only a truly Defence Force that does not participate in wars of aggression.
For too long we have been duped by our Government to fear asylum seekers and refugees as terrorists and refusing to conform to "The Australian Way of Life".......That is a myth that too is evolving.
I note your past Tony but I am much more interested in where you are going...Congratulations on your change of direction