(part 2 of 2)
It is sad that many of the comments under various threads in opposition to “multiculturalism” slide into such language, seriously hurtful to people of recent immigrant background. I wonder if the posters of such comments have any idea of how cruel and insensitive to people of immigrant or non-English-speaking family background this sort of language is. I saw the pain in Jolanda’s two recent posts on the Agnes Tay thread: Jolanda’s family background being white, Catholic, Spanish, by the way – and one of the correspondents then condescendingly reassured her that Spanish culture was OK because it wasn’t so different to the “host” culture; it was just those Muslims and Hindus that were the problem. More sorting, more grading, of who “passes” and who “fails” the tests of “Australian-ness” …

That we have a multicultural society in Australia is now genetic fact: it cannot be legislated or bullied away by fanatical nativist followers of John Howard. The urgent question now is whether we will have a decent multicultural society, or an indecent and cruel one that makes many of its citizens feel they have been relegated to second-class status, subjected to tests of Australianness and all the rest of the ugly Howard-led apparatus to control people through fear.

One can see from many threads on OLO that this question hangs in the balance. A decently liberal Australian society is going to have to be defended, honestly and robustly and without fear of loss of personal privacy by people of immigrant or part-immigrant background, if we want to rebuild peace and mutual respect in our society. The point is, there are a great many of us being hurt by what is going on now: we must have the courage to stand up for social decency in our great shared country.

What is pathetic Tony is your lack of ability to debate.

part 3.
Got news for you elitist Tony… they never have been.
“In our overgrown cities, the old suburban ideal of the good life had been tarnished. The public infrastructure of health and education and transport, so new and fresh in the confident 1960s, was already decaying.”
Well you can shoot that one home to the state governments can’t you. BTW mostly they have been Labor.
“There weren’t so many happy families around any more. There were fewer children. Too many of them were being neglected or abused in dysfunctional domestic set-ups where mothers or fathers or their new partners were putting themselves first and their kids’ welfare and security a long way behind. People were drawing in on themselves, becoming more self-centred, reluctant to engage in community. The old churches were wilting, and new (and sometimes quite creepy) American-style happy-clappy groups were moving into the vacuum.”
Well Tony you can’t reasonably blame Howard for that. Does that mean you are being un-reason-able?
“And there was racism - not so much against Aborigines anymore, but against darker-skinned immigrants - Muslims or those who might look so. The cancer of the ever-worsening Israel-Palestinian conflict had spread to Australia. Somehow we had become Israel’s and the US’s military ally in their never-ending brutal wars and proxy wars on Middle Eastern people.”
Oh my god… the “R” word. Much touted in the Labor years and misused by the PC brigade to shut-down dissent. Particularly about Multiculturalism and immigration matters Tony. Hawke refuse to put the issue to a referendum. As did Fraser before him. BTW the ME problem of Israel and Palestine has had very little prominence here. Maybe it’s more to do with your prejudices and those you mix with. Try the mainstream for a change.
“We had become a more militarised country,”
You are kidding

Dear Tony
you might not like my description of Bob Brown, nor wish to debate with me, but thats ok. Part of Aussie culture is calling a spade a spade. I'll debate the issue nose to nose anytime.

You said:
"I wonder if the posters of such comments have any idea of how cruel and insensitive to people of immigrant or non-English-speaking family background this sort of language is"

I wish to put the other side of that coin.

I wonder if those promoting 'Multi' culture are aware of how dehumanizing such language is to those who consider themselves participants in 'Australian' culture ?

Our objection to Multi culturalism is a rejection of the idea of bringing say Chinese or Islamic culture here "in a manner" which could threaten the social cultural and political equalibrium of the country....and THAT is the key issue.

All we are asking is to have our culture recognized, respected and not threatened. In terms of immigration, this means that we control numbers and origins such that the primary goal of basic cultural homogeneity is maintained.

It is a demographic fact, that around 70% of Australians trace their ancestry back to:

a) Both parents born in Australia
b) One parent at least born in Australia
Column B05a in the census of 2001 shows clearly the predominance of the Anglo Celt component of our population, and therefore our culture.

The ONLY reason an Agnes Tay or a Mohammed so and so would be offended by our assertion of Australian culture is if they WISHED TO CHANGE IT or felt they had something "superior" to offer and that sir....is racism or cultural imperialism.
Would we be offended if we went to Italy and they spoke of the integrity of Italian culture ? hardly.
We are not school children here.

part 4.

“We were obviously now a complex multicultural society... ...but not a particularly happy or well-integrated one.”

But not a particularly happy or well-integrated one eh. That’s because tony… “M” does not require integration. Just tolerance… which Tony… doesn’t mean acceptance.

“No one could seem to agree on what our national values were any more: we no longer could even find agreed meanings for words, there had been so much spin already that many of our most important words now had to be put in quotation marks when we used them. (Think about: “work choices”, “tolerance” , “mateship”, “fair go”, “national cohesion”, “national pride”, “national security”, “sovereignty”, “war on terror”, “integrity of our borders”, “security risk”, “conscience vote”, “moral issues”, “sustainable economic growth”, “processing”.)”

Gee I wonder what policy or policies brought this about? It’s been happening for a generation tony. Wake up man! Do you also blame Howard for the Indonesian tsunami and cyclones and volcanoes etc, etc, etc…

“We couldn’t agree on our own history any more. We seemed to be losing our sense of who we were, as our major media and national assets passed into foreign ownership and as we fell more and more into the American socio-cultural orbit.”

See above and you can thank Whitlam, Grassby, Hawke and the Keating governments for starting the sell off of Australia. BTW the US is not the only country we trade with… did you forget that. Does China ring a bell?

“My Australian dream has finally shattered.”

Who said we wanted it. Seems to me you’d be one of the last people I’d be asking for advice from.

“I still love my country”

Sure you do Tony. That’s why you scapegoat it and it’s people. That’s why “more than ever” you divorce yourself from ordinary Australians and the Australia you once wanted… more than anything… to be part of.

As for your rant including; “the post-1945 Anglo-Celtic ascendancy”

Excuse me? Please explain. Tony. Old boy… The Anglo-Celtics have been in the ascendancy since 1788. It’s time you had a REALITY CHECK..

• Tony Kevin ..."That we have a multicultural society in Australia is now genetic fact: it cannot be legislated or bullied away by fanatical nativist-followers of John Howard. The urgent question now is whether we will have a decent multicultural society, or an indecent and cruel one that makes many of its citizens feel they have been relegated to second-class status, subjected-to-tests of Australian-ness and all the rest of the ugly Howard-led apparatus to control people through fear"!

• Paul Lockyer ..."Well Senator Brown, what about the Prime Minister's (fear) argument, though, it's trashing the gene-pool if you don't make financial reward one of the benefits for
(legal-eagles) getting into Parliament"?

• Bob Brown ..."I don't know that there's a strong argument that the gene-pool is of any particularly-great-standard. You know, the gene-pool in politics is best served by people who have high values, who respect their fellow citizens, who believe in being true democrats. And this money-grabbing that we've seen this week - and it's now four-new-ideas coming out of the Prime Minister's office endorsed by well, three-of-them endorsed by the Labor Party as well - doesn't reflect the highest values in politics and I think we should be looking to a better gene-pool. But I don't think you get that by paying more money. And I think there needs to be a greater emphasis on integrity in politics, rather than simply saying if we give more money to people we'll get better value. There is no evidence for that, and in fact, there's quite a strong argument that we don't want to go the American way where only millionaires get into politics and Parliament. You lose that rich diversity of the community, which a proper democracy should have".

• Paul Lockyer ..."So do you believe you're paid too much"? Bob Brown ..."I believe the pay is high. We're amongst the top 5% of salary earners. If you don't include those outrageous payments going to CEOs - you know, multimillion-dollar-payments, including to CEOs of companies which return ... have bad balance sheets at the end of the year"... http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2006/s1735695.htm

• Tony Kevin ..."One can see from many threads on OLO that this question hangs in the balance. A decently liberal Australian society is going to have to be defended, honestly and robustly and without fear of loss of personal privacy by people of immigrant or part-immigrant background, if we want to rebuild peace and mutual respect in our society. The point is, there are a great many of us being hurt by what is going on now: we must have the courage to stand up for social decency in our great shared country"!

• T800 [Ted Lapkin] ..."Well, well, well, here I was expecting some relevant article about Australia and all I get is an epic-missive from Tony Kevin"!

• Marilyn Shepherd ..."Yawn, here we go again, defending Australia no-matter what the truth really is. My German family came here in 1844, stole the land north of the Adelaide Plains and drove out the aboriginal owners, then they moved-to the Mallee and did the same thing. It is in the history books for heavens' sake. Should I simply ignore it? Then the Cornish and Welsh, Irish and English came from 1890-1920, moved to the Mallee and helped to drive-off the aborigines and steal the land. It is now ruined out there you know. Mile-after-mile of scrub was torn-down by my family in the name-of-planting more crops".

"The land is a giant dustbowl, it's a salt-pan with tonnes of fertiliser required to grow anything. I know because I watched it all happen in the 1950's and 60's. Then I left. My English grandfather went to war for the Poms, not for Australia, and spent 6 years in the ... blood, so that Australia would not lock-up children in the deserts, not follow blindly to other stupid wars and in the 1960's got an exemption for his youngest son not-to-go to Vietnam. Do not lecture me about my history in the country and do not ever, ever tell me I have to leave because I don't like what is happening to it. Do you pathetic children get my drift"? http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=4866#54763