Heh, nice post Strewth.

The moment I read the article, I was just waiting for a rabid white winger to show the colour of their teeth - sure enough Leigh, you provided an excellent example. Wipe them out? come on. Seriously. (You aren't serious are you? that would be kind of scary...)

The article is reasonably well written - (though according to Leigh's worldview, apparently I'm now a terrorist... damn. Kind of shame we don't have a better definition dont'cha think? Or maybe that would make it harder to lock people up without charge...)

It's a simple assessment of the facts - they're trying to bomb a concept.
You can't do that, it doesn't work.
You bomb it, you may destroy the buildings, but you construct a support base.

And as for exterminating the enemy entirely, the muslim people represent nearly a quarter of the planet's population... that would make the holocaust look like a day at the park.
Is that what you want to be Leigh? a nazi? I don't mean that as a facetious question, though in light of your earlier statements I think it's a valid one.

Dear Keith

You said 2 things:

1/ Remember the shelling of Palestinian civilians on Gaza Beach? No violence was shown by Hamas or the Palestinian Government prior to that.

COMMENT... r u serious ? good grief. ur a worry. To what point in time do you consider 'prior' ? Mate.. *shake shake*..... I've been reading the papers too u know, and I recall numerous attempts to penetrate the barrier, with explosives. Tunnels, checkpoint attacks etc etc etc. I also remember when there was a 'ceasefire' for like 6months and suddenly out of the blue KA-BOOOOOOOOOOM a bus full of Jewish civilians is blown up for no reason. (now go on.. tell me Mossad did it ? :)

2/ What right have Israel to interfere in the internal affairs of another Government?

COMMENT = "Plenty"

http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html

Keith, would you PLEASE READ carefully the Charter of this 'democratically elected' government Hamas. It's just as bad as MEIN KAMPF
Instead of referring to the 3rd REICH lasting for a 1000 years, it refers to the Islamic WAQF from the day of conquest to the day of resurrection. Meaning "Palestine".

If you don't appreciate what this means, in terms of the very existence of Israel, then please refrain from commmenting on that which you clearly have not sufficiently researched.
You are letting emotion and compassion rule your reason instead of the other way round.

Have you read it ?

Do you understand it ?

Article 8 = Justification and encouragement of homicide bombing.
Article 11 =

a) Admission that it was taken BY FORCE by the Muslims.
b) Declaration that it can NEVER be ceded in part or in whole.

Israelis can actually read mate... and reading this, If I was an Israeli, would hold every palestinian voter responsible for the destruction which is now inevitable and which you see with your own eyes.

Possibly not defeat, because America still has brute force, but just a quiet signal from the right quarter, that the US must change its ways.

One of our posters blames the UN, saying that it has been always against America using force.

But since WW2, has not America, apart from helping win a few skirmishes, like Korea and Serbia been more in trouble through using force unlawfully or preemptively, similar to the attack on Cambodia during the Vietnam War, which according to historians, the increasing unpopularity at home helped them to actually lose in Vietnam.

As the move into Cambodia was carried out mainly from orders by Henry Kissinger, Minister of State at the time, it is so interesting that the more recent illegal preemptive attack on Iraq was also carried out partly at the bid of persons of Jewish ancestry similar to Kissinger who has also been accused of double diplomacy instigating the first Arab attack on the fledging Israel, already having warned Israel about an impending Arab attack and having them quickly armed accordingly.

We might well wonder who is really running America, and many are possibly beginning to agree that the hate that has developed between the Arabs and the Israelis since Israel has been so powerfully armed by the US, makes us wonder that possibly the weakest thing that the UN allowed happen in the Middle-East was to let Israel go militarily nuclear.

Part Two

Not sure, but was it another US veto that allowed Israel to manufacture atomic warheads? If Iran justifiably does the same, God knows what might happen?

But what we might suggest after using overhead logic possibly, is that what the US has been losing lately in the Middle-East and thus throughout the world, is that eminent respect she achieved after WW2, even though it took the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour, to bring her into the war.

How could we bring America back to sanity? If miracles could happen, maybe both Tony Blair and John Howard could do a turn about face and admit they’d backed the wrong horse.

Anyhow, if there is any praying to be done by the more religous members of our group, please pray not for America to be more powerful, but for the UN to be more powerful, which one could believe a global vote would win hands down.

bushbred: I know you think the U.N. is a fantastic organisation, whereas I see it as a corrupt and unaccountable would-be world government. We've been through that before though.

Anyhow, about the topic...

Personally, I don't see that there will ever be peace in the Middle East. Other regions may advance themselves so they can engage in scientific inquiry and commercial trade, but I don't see modernism as being on the agenda of that region.

I do indeed think it's a massive mistake for the west to be involved in the entire region. I think what we need to do is hurry up with the alternative fuels so we can cut the region loose. The Jews have indeed produced a lot of great minds, but unfortunately, if some of those great minds insist in on staying in Israel, then that's too bad for them. I say we just cut the entire barren, crappy region (after all, aside from oil, what does the ME produce -- intellectually, culturally or in terms of resources or finished products -- that actually matters to anyone? Minus oil, it contributes about as much as the Falkland Islands or Franz Joseph Land) loose and let it descend back into the Dark Ages where it belongs and desires to be.

Let's leave them alone to their own inanity, but let's not be pacifists if they won't content themselves with their own in-fighting.

I think what we are seeing in the Middle East, is that tribalism
is still very much the problem there. Even on this thread,
we see Marylin getting her breasts in a tangle over Lebanon,
yet lets look at the reality:

In Iraq, Sunnis are killing Shias, Shias killing Sunnis,
around 3500 last month, so three times as many casualties
as in Lebanon, in just one month.

In Darfur, Arab Muslims are killing black non Muslims
by the hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, yet
the Arab world remains largely silent about what their
brothers are up to, prefering to focus on 1000 people
in Lebanon.

There are many more examples.

Looks like our tribal heritage shows up again and again,
especially in the Middle East, where its still
common thinking.