thanks Marylin. you so eloquently pointed out the facts i would have like to have thrown in John Careys too.
It seemed to me Marylin was just stating a few well worn facts not advocating theocratic attrocity. Seems there's a porcity of rationalists on here today.

Marilyn

"I point out quite correctly that the US has committed more war crimes and invasions than any nation on earth in the last 60 years?"

"It is a fact that the US have killed over 16 million people in wars and invasions since 1946."

Where on earth did you get these figures from?

and

"The US still has the primitive death penalty "

Certainly and I agree with you. But how many Muslim Nations have the death penalty? What point are you making here?

"The Hezbollah set up the rocket launchers on "hillsides" according to every single witness."

What about the ariel photographs shown on TV showing rockets coming out of villages. And what about journalists who reported this. Were they not witnesses?

I can see your answer now. Anything you don't agree with has been produced by Zionists or the nasty Americans or both. And I am nasty for even suggesting that you are wrong or giving consideration to the other view.

Horrificus,

When I was a kid my parents always told me to watch out for the bogyman. In my innocence I unswervingly obeyed. Never set eyes on the bugger though. As I entered my teenage years I stopped looking. Then along came the commies and, in response to my masters & betters, I dutifully looked under my bed every night & morning, but didn't see anything remotely resembling what they'd described. As I matured I came to doubt their existence and matured. Now you & John Howard/Carey are trying to tell me that not only was the bugger really there all the time but that now he's wearing a beard & a turban.

Given that I've finally grown up and can think for myself, thank you, and that you & the Johnos are most definitely neither my masters nor my betters, tell me why I should believe you now?

I suspect the Israeli photos of people firing rockets from near houses are about as reliable as the US's use of Colin Powell's presentation at the UN about the WMD in Iraq - much of which was compiled by the Israelis.

You need to grow up all you people who automatically demonise arabs as child killing monsters and remember our own version of the scam with the children the Iraqi parents did not throw into the sea and who now live here happily as permanent residents of our "fair country".

Does it occur to any of you that the Israelis are all reservists in the armed forces? On the Haaretz website there is a self-pitying rant by one of them who claims they broke into Lebanese shops and stole the food and then broke into the few homes still standing and lived in them.

Talk about a gross violation of human decency when we consider the Israelis told them to leave and then bombed them to bits on many occasions and stopped food getting in.

We are delighted that this essay evoked so much discussion and thought!

John E. Carey

Marilyn I suggest that you "grow up" by not launching into a discussion with a spiteful character assassination on someone whose views you disagree with. To wit: "John E Carey, imbecile and spin merchant extraordinary".

Also the excessive use of hyperbole does not help your cause either. Lebanon has not been "blown to bits" as you suggest.