It is very illuminating that many those who are so forthright & loud in condemning Israel, for “killing civilians", are so silent when double or triple that number are killed each day in Iraq, by fellow Muslims, or when suicide bombers attack crowded civilian buses in Israel.

Makes me think that their concerns about "murder of innocent civilians" are merely a cover for a deeper anti-Israel agenda.

Boaz,
The sad thing is that the “Barwon 13’s” heroes, the Taliban, murdered thousands of genuine leftists when they came to power in Afghanistan. The “leftists” we have in Australia are more akin to spoilt children seeking attention.

Marilyn Shepherd

You state the following: "Ed O'Loughlin has the results of a poll in the SMH and AGE today about the Israelis. Nearly 90% believe it is fine to blow up civilians."

But does such an article exist? I have trawled through the text-only sections of The Age and SMH websites for August 10th, August 11th and August 12th and can't find it. Are you confusing it with an Ed O'Loughlin article that appeared in Scotland's Sunday Herald on July 16, 2006? This article noted that while "opinion in Israel is shaped largely by a domestic media which seldom gives much space to Arab suffering," only 52% of Israelis were in favour of bombing military targets if it meant killing civilians as well.

Also The Jakarta Post of July 28, 2006, reports on a nationwide survey of Indonesians Muslims, which found that more than 40% were ready to "wage war for their faith". Which is why, no doubt, that Islam is called the Religion of Peace?

For further proof of the pacifist, non-violent leanings of Islam, I suggest you listen to John Hendren’s NPR report of August 7, 2006.

This is part of the transcript:

"This is how staggeringly pointless the killing in Iraq is getting: shepherds in the rural western Baghdad neighborhood of Gazalea have recently been murdered, according to locals, for failing to diaper their goats. Apparently the sexual tension is so high in regions where Sheikhs take a draconian view of Shariah law, that they feel the sight of naked goats poses an unacceptable temptation. ...

I've spent nearly a year here ... and that seemed about as preposterous as Iraq could get until I heard about the grocery store in east Baghdad. The grocer and three others were shot to death and the store was firebombed because he suggestively arranged his vegetables.

........../

Standing up a celery stalk near a couple of tomatoes in a way that might - to the profoundly repressed - suggest an aroused male, is now a capital offense."

Strewth,

I rarely, if ever, agree with you on anything, but Syria is not landlocked:

http://media.maps.com/magellan/Images/SYRIA-W1.gif

Keith,

What? The Settlers, particularly those in the supposedly 'illegal' settlements, are made up of some of the worlds best scientists, chemists, etc. With this precedent be prepared to see small rockets, similar to katyushas, but with thermobaric warheads (for instance) fired into Palestinian population centres on a regular basis. For you who fails to understand, the danger posed by this precedent, is that it will be understood by the extremists in Likud/similar parties as carte blanche, the danger of which is shown by the fact that Likud was formed from the membership of Irgun/Etzel

http://www.etzel.org.il/english/

Marilyn,

If arab/persian society is so very wonderful and peaceloving and fair, why on earth are so many refugees that you support, coming from these societies? Why should those who follow the rules and wait their turn be condemned to death, due to the actions of those who try and jump the line? Yes I know they have terrible stories, what of it, they are refugees, it goes with the territory, but what of those legitimate refugees who die, because they were not given refuge, because of those who tried to get around the system?

What of the third world conditions on Aboriginal communities? Why on earth should I care about those from overseas when I see with my own eyes the coming geonicide from petrol sniffing in central australia? Charity starts at home, and with limited funds available for it, I DO NOT CARE one iota for those who cannot/will not follow the procedures.

Inshallah

2bob

Opinion polls show that more than 90 per cent of Israelis approve strongly of the war and almost as many also approve of attacking civilian targets. Yet underlying the chorus of bravado and jingoism in recent days was a rising note of unease. - Ed O'Loughlin, AGE, August 12 2006.

Savage Pencil do you think I say those things without a trace of evidence? Ed is reputeable, he is there in Lebanon and he has seen that atrocities for himself.

Thankfully the vast majority of Australian's want a ceasefire - 80%, Palestine/Irsael solved - 83%, and no peace keepers to help out Israel - 51%. The Israelis of course have accepted the terms of the UN peace keeping force but continue to murder civilians.

I do not and will not ever support a country that supports the massacres of civilians we have seen in the Lebanon in a stinking war of aggression that was planned over a year ago with British and American approval against a civilian population who had done nothing wrong.

Barbarous savages is all we can call a population that wants to murder civilians. But then we only have to look at what we have done in Iraq - a nation with no army, airforce or navy and a population comprising 53% children.

Bombed them to bits without cause, based on lies, just because that moron Bush said so.

Now there is the civil war we all predicted and a new "terror" alert in London has been "foiled" without a trace of evidence ever being submitted that such a plot existed and the racist media lap it up as fact - just because they put the word 'muslim' to the fore.

Madness and lunacy prevail.

No Inahallah 2bob,

You see the Israeli settlements in Palestine would constitute 'a state within a state'. Can't have that now can we. Israel have set the precedent for dealing with that situation in Southern Lebanon...haven't they?

Those settlements are illegal if they try to claim the land as Israel's. Check the Geneva Convention. If that situation arises Palestine will be entitled to use such force as necessary to reclaim it's sovernity over those areas. Isn't that the Israeli argument with Hezbollah and Lebanon?

You Israeli propagandists really are so short sighted you fall over your own stupid rationalisations.

By the way I am pressuring various organisations and people to take up the fight to have those IDF officers involved in giving the orders for the bombing(Precision) of that building in Qana to be taken to the International Court to be tried for War Crimes. You've been the inspiration for that. Thanks.

Have you seen the latest UN resolution? It was adopted unanimously.
Result: The situation returns to exactly as it was prior to the Israeli invasion...Israel has to return to it's borders and there is no guarantee those two soldiers will be returned. There is no guarantee Hezbollah will be disarmed. There is a guarantee the disputed Shaba Fields 10 square klms will be settled. And probably in favour of Lebanon

You must be bitterly disappointed the 'invincible' IDF has been defeated by Hezbollah and Israel will be forced by the US to accept the terms of the embarassing cease fire and withdrawal resolution in the UN.

Oh and world opinion has changed to disadvantage the bullies in the region...forever.

Have a nice day

Marilyn Shepherd “It's the same old lunacy from Leigh and Sage…”

“The government of Lebanon is mainly Sunni and Christian for pete's sake.”

The point is, the government of Lebanon, in deciding not to control/contain/ disarm the terrorists actions initiated off its own soil is “COMPLICIT” by default in the outcome.

Who would be a fault if Australia were to allow an anti-New Zealand force to attack parts of New Zealand and do nothing to disarm or (preferably) imprison them? – I bet you would be the first to scream for John Howard to do something, hypocrite

Leigh and Sage post no lunacy.

“Disproportionate war”, as I suggested on another thread, is merely a weasel word expression invented by those who would seek a politically manipulated criticism of Israel’s defensive actions.

The actions of the medieval Shiite Muslims, who are turning Iran into a cesspool of religious intolerance and would, aided by the bloodied nosed Syrians, see Hezbollah inflict a similar fate befall Lebanon are the real actions of lunatics.

Your “disproportionate” criticism of people who disagree with your minority view is, likewise, where more lunacy reigns.

If it were me or my brother who was being held hostage by these troll Hezbollah terrorists, I would expect my government to do everything possible to secure his/my release, “proportionality” having nothing to do with it.

War is “ABSOLUTE”, it always should be or one is merely beckoning the enemy to grow stronger under the limited impact of a “proportional” reaction – and that is, in military terms, tactical “lunacy”.

There is no point in leaving a crippled enemy to be held up as a martyr and incite others to more aggression. The only way of dealing with a terrorist enemy like Hezbollah is to destroy it and the source of the malignancy - and that ultimately is Iran and Syria. I would suggest those two countries are asking for everyone to "bring it all on" and I would suggest we oblige them, the sooner the better. No limited action, no proportional offensive, just an absolute victory (for "western" values)