BD, God told me last night that you won't be going to heaven because you quote him/her too much down here on earth. Reckons that sending you down stairs would annoy the hell out of old nic. LOL

I can’t believe that the nature of heaven, a primitive fairy tale, is being “seriously” debated here as though it is something "real".

In 1844 it was written:

“Man (or in modern speak - humans)… has found only the reflection of himself in the fantastic reality of heaven, where he sought a superman” …

“Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is indeed the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man, state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an ‘inverted consciousness’ of the world, because they are an ‘inverted world’.…. It is the fantastic realisation of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is therefore indirectly the struggle against that world whose ‘spiritual aroma’ is religion.”

“Religious suffering is at one and the same time the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of the heartless world and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.”

“The abolition of religion as the ‘illusory’ happiness of the people is the demand for their ‘real’ happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is therefore in embryo the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.”

I’m not really one for quoting tracts of text, however I don’t think anyone (including me) has yet said it better than Karl Marx.

In other words, once we create conditions on earth where we can express the full essence of ourselves as humans (i.e. happiness in 'reality'), the need for the fantasy of heaven where our idealized view of ourselves (or 'superman' - God, obviously) is, will disappear.

Not a lot more to be said really.

tao,
Why have the followers of Marx now abandoned the teachings and most now accept the reality of heaven as the only hope for man?

Yes Philo,
Groucho died from pneumonia on August 19, 1977 at the age of 86 . . . and where do you think his spirit went?

Philo,

What "reality" of heaven? Whether someone believes it or not, it is still not "reality" - but as Marx said - fantasy.

That is the whole point - heaven is not reality. It is wishful thinking which arises because the conditions in which the majority live are so miserable and uncertain. The only hope they have is that it will be better in the afterlife.

I'm not sure what followers of Marx you believe have abandoned Marxism. Marxism is not like religion in that if you just believe it you will be rewarded with heaven, it is scientific socialism which analyses the history, economics and progress of mankind. People don't have to "follow it" to get to some mystical heaven, it merely predicts that humanity will either progress to a higher economic organisation of people through conscious intervention and struggle against oppression, or degenerate into barbarism - in the real world. At the moment it looks like we are heading down the second path, but the conditions are being created for the first. However religion obscures the truth, just as it always has. As Marx said "the struggle against religion is therefore the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion" and equally the struggle against the miserable and exploitive conditions of the majority of humanity (which gives rise to hope in the afterlife) is the struggle against religion.

Perhaps you ought to look at those who profess Christianity (particularly our leaders) who have abandoned the 10 Commandments - thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not bear false witness etc. Perhaps they have also abandoned heaven. Oh thats right - if they repent they will be forgiven - and still get into heaven. How convenient.

I struggled over this article more than most and the above comments show that I failed to get my point across. Heaven is not real in the sense that the tree in the quad is real. It is a mythology but not one made up out of our fear of death. Rather, it is the consequence of certain events in the history of Israel (the life of Jesus included) that point to as transformation of the world. Thus it is a dream but a dream with a firm basis in history. As I said in the article without such a dream we would settle down and accept the status quo. It is this dream that has propelled the culture of the West along its pathway in contrast to those societies whose dream is of an eternal return.

I tried, unsuccessfully, to jolt readers out of the idea of heaven being the reward for a good life after death. There is a strong emphasis on judgment in the NT, especially in the gospel of Matthew. None of this language points to the judgment of individuals after their deaths but to an end time judgment of the whole world. This is figurative speech that emphasizes the priority of the kingdom and is linked to works of compassion and faith. Thus kingdom of heaven language is quite different from the popular notion of the destiny of the souls of the dead. This arose out of the intermixing of Greek notions with those of Israel and in the church produced a whole system of payment and reward that amounted to social control. Secularists are quite right to protest about this system, it amounts to an imposed morality that does not affect the inner person.