Neither is heaven an ideal that we make up. Rather it is a reality that overturns all of our ideas of what the good is and who we are. Thus heaven is real in that with its intersection with earth in the man Jesus it transforms the earth. The ideas of Marx were just ideas and led to misery. Heaven is an idea in the mind of God and brings wellbeing. It is an idea with its feet in historical event and thus is not just made up as some of you have said. It is an outworking of history. Thus it is a given and not our own product. It is “other”.

We must remember that the idea of the immortal soul was alien to Israel from whence Jesus came. The dead were understood to go down into Sheol, a place of shadows in which God could not be praised. If we are going to think sensibly about heaven we must search beyond the sentimental and the fearful constructions of the day that effectively rob heaven of its nature as other.

Sell's how do you reconcile that approach with the section on the sheep and the goats I posted earlier?

Your views seem in sharp contrast to the passage where each individual is judged specifically on the basis of the things they did and did not do (also in contrast to the views of those who get carried away by faith alone).

R0bert

Sells, the difficulty you faced in getting your point across is the same one that those who think and write on Christianity often face: how do you make a 2,000 year old religion based on texts written in ancient languages and translated down the ages relevant for the modern era?

I have contemplated Michelangelo's "Last Judgement" painted on the wall of the Sistine Chapel. It seemed to me to distil the whole age-old notion of 'fear God's judgement' and did indeed present a terrifying vision, better probably than the words in the Bible and the words of a thousand sermons. As much as I appreciated the artistry, I did not and do not feel the fear. Ancient fears wear off over time, it seems.

Your attempt to examine the topic was reasonable and well written, though, and generated both some fun and some serious debate. Thanks for writing it.

“Dear God”, I know you hear my prayer. I know you exist coz you left your mark absolutely everywhere. The whole world you created with a single word from the tallest mountain to the tiniest bird. The fish that can swim and all the hers and the hims and you didn’t just leave, I know you hear my prayer.

You’re there to comfort through all the wars that we create, You’ve given us a choice which is sometimes not so great. We constantly choose wrong, we don’t know what to do, but thank God, you’re there when we break in two.

You’ve not let us down, the same today and before; a friend and father, You’re constantly more than we can ask for. It’s us who disappoint, who make the world what it is. We’d like to blame you...
Guys, It’s our fault, NOT HIS.

The bible we read helps us to understand how to fix this mess that we made by our very own hands. It is the relevant and truthful, inspired word of God, give it a read sometime, it’s definitely not a fraud!

As for heaven, I know that I’ll get to go, I’ll party with the Saviour but before you ask, there’s stuff that I don’t yet know. I don’t know when and I don’t know how I will get there yet but here’s what I’ll bet. It’ll be fantastic and amazing, better than anything I’ve dreamed and He wants you to know that you can get there too! My God, if there’s one thing that I believe in at all, it’s You. Forever You.

Mickijo,

Religion isn't all bad. Historically, it has given the social framework for the establishment of early City States: e.g., Sumer. Also, the template for "design" adopted by Science has its tethers in religion. Our modern understanding of "Reality" has influenced by Abelard and Aquinas. Religion has also arrested progress. One needs to be pragmatic.

Is heaven real? ...It is a hypothetical construct.

Oliver, I have people in my family who are deeply religious, some gain a great deal of comfort from their faith while others are fearful of upsetting their god and incurring his great wrath.
My view of mainline religions is that they are not much different to supermarts where profits and not prophets are the interest.
When an archbishop or pope or ayotollah can preach self denial etc then live in an opposite lifestyle I say "humbug"
I wonder what the simple carpenter would say?