Heaven On Earth - Part 1

Philo, Jamo: Thank you for taking this thread down a spiritual-rooted-in-nature path. Much more productive than some socio-political direction espoused by “the church’, albeit more abstract. However I would take some alternate views to some aspects.

Philo, you suggested heaven is "a present reality not yet realised on Earth". I would contrast that with Jamo's "Heaven is a clear conscience. Hell is the torment of guilt." with which I would broadly agree, and would suggest is achievable for any normally wired person, given sufficient insight, reflection on self and personal growth, especially in relations with others. This is achievable on earth today and we have seen many people who appear to have achieved ‘heaven on earth’. The Bible indicates Jesus was a person who was one and I assume Paul, after the Damascus Road enlightenment appears to have been another. Nelson Mandela, Bishop Desmond Tutu, Mother Teresa and Aung Sung Suu Kyi each appear to be contemporary examples of people who have found that enlightened place of awareness, peace, equanimity, love and poise.

This is more than the absence of guilt, but that aspect resonates because the enlightened state of being ‘in heaven’ means that one better understands why things happen, can accept the reality of any situation and look on it without judgement. In this way, one can not only forgive others but can also “forgive us (ourselves) our trespasses”. The wonder of this state is that in heaven on earth one no longer needs to seek absolution from or through a priest. Rather, one is sufficiently mature and independent to accept and forgive oneself, no longer dwelling on self judgement or fearing the judgement of others. One recognises that God (whatever that higher power is) doesn’t really play games with humanity; rather that we are responsible for our own actions and how we choose to react to events and opportunities.

Continued in Part 2

Further musings on what heaven might be like. (And, yes, pedants out there, I know that my list of potential gods in heaven contained a couple that are really just synonyms).

Eternity is a hell (whoops) of a long time. When we get to heaven, can we catch up with the sleep we missed out on while on earth? For those of us who didn't keep up in the fitness stakes, will we shed that cellulite and muscle up when we get there? If so, why bother while still here?

I don't want to get into the sport they play in heaven, but I'm interested in the music soundtrack. Nothing against harp music, but it could get monotonous. Gregorian chants? Gospel? God-bothering country music? They do say that the devil has the best music, so I guess there'll be no rock & roll. And I guess John Lennon's music wouldn't be top of the pops in heaven: 'no hell below us, above us only sky'.

A couple of people mentioned that heaven is merely the absence of guilt. But when you start to delve, that is a very unclear concept. I'm guilty because I don't visit my old mother enough, I don't spend enough time with my daughter, I don't do enought to help those less fortunate, I've watched 'Big Brother', I drink alcohol too much, I've had affairs, I've wished harm upon others, I once almost voted Liberal... do you see what a slippery slope that is?

So Jamo, I do repent my sins, no worries. That wipes the slate clean does it? I might commit murder before I die. Just repent, then I'll be right? If so, I'll just keep right on sinnin' and catch up with repentance later. I know I'm dicing with sudden death before I could repent, but hey, like is full of risks. Why should the hereafter be different?

If god is anything at all, it must surely be the simple uncritical love that one "being" instinctively feels for another. We feel it towards our children (unless something comes along to mess it up).

So read my words - I love you. I love you. I love you.

Just for a heartbeat, don't question my sincerity. Don't ask me my creed. Don't ask me my race. Don't fish around for my motive.

Don't reference the bible, the koran - whatever. Don't hang my words like a trophy in the footy club of your religion.

Don't try to fit me into Herod's time, nor Mohammed's. I am here and now, telling you this.

Don't look for my words in the Dead Sea Scrolls. They are not there.

They are here and now, and they are my testament to you -

I love you. I love you. I love you.

- but can you handle it?

Someone tell me heaven is not real- how boring would it be to wander around there as a sinless soul millennium after millennium with other wandering sinless souls.

No drugs and sex and rock&roll; no knife, fork, bottle or cork in sight…

What would one do to kill unlimited time?!

Celvia. You could make those loverly "Philly Cream Cheese" things, for the sinless in heaven. Although I reckon a ripe blue cheese or vintage cheddar would be more appreciated. There again maybe not, as they dont have a good red wine to go with them in heaven, I hear!

I would have to agree on views with gecko a few posts ago that religion and heaven is something made up for people to have hope for in the next life. As much drama as religion causes in our society today, I would have to say that, if this belief can be practiced without being as harmful to us all as a culture, then there is no reason for it not to be there.

Epithemeos
“War on Religion”
http://hearingtheword.blogspot.com/