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The Forum > Article Comments > Is heaven real? > Comments

Is heaven real? : Comments

By Peter Sellick, published 16/8/2006

The church is divided between those who know too much about heaven and those who are uncomfortable with it.

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"Dear God", hope you got the letter, and ... I pray you can make it better down here. I don't mean a big reduction in the price of beer but all the people that you made in your image, see them starving on their feet 'cause they don't get enough to eat from God, ...

Dear God, sorry to disturb you, but ... I feel that I should be heard loud and clear. We all need a big reduction in amount of tears and all the people that you made in your image, see them fighting in the street 'cause they can't make opinions meet about God, ...

Did you make disease, and the diamond blue? Did you make mankind after we made you? And the devil too!

"Dear God", don't know if you noticed, but... your name is on a lot of quotes in this book, and us crazy humans wrote it, you should take a look, and all the people that you made in your image still believing that junk is true. Well I know it ain't, and so do you, dear God, I can't believe in - I don't believe in.

I won't believe in heaven and hell. No saints, no sinners, no devil as well. No pearly gates, no thorny crown. You're always letting us humans down. The wars you bring, the babes you drown. Those lost at sea and never found, and it's the same the whole world 'round. The hurt I see helps to compound that Father, Son and Holy Ghost is just somebody's unholy hoax, and if you're up there you'd perceive that my heart's here upon my sleeve. If there's one thing I don't believe in ... it's you ....

Words of wisdom from XTC's Andy Partridge.
Posted by Savage Pencil, Wednesday, 16 August 2006 10:25:35 PM
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Dear Savage Pencil,

My God, Jesus Christ is a Prince of Peace. He knew no sin. He did no sin. In him was no sin. He came to deliver humans from sin.

Please remember:

. He did not preach religion nor he told his disciples to preach so.
. He healed many sick people, cured their diseases..
. He asked his followers to forgive enemies; love neighbours.


Can you find any sort of evil/violent character in Him?.
Posted by Michael Reeve, Wednesday, 16 August 2006 10:52:35 PM
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It is a sad thing that, through the distortions of translation, literal interpretations, a prevailing lack of ability to see and interpret myths and the normal human desire to exert power, the bible and many other great old texts are so completely misunderstood.

To my reading, the author of this piece and each respondent has displayed one or ore of those weaknesses.

To understand 'heaven' I encourage all interested to study the works of Karen Horney. It is not easy, but you will find the answers in your own neuroses. And to understand christianity and other religions, I encourage any reading of Bishop(Ret) John Shelby Spong, who can teach us to read such texts in an informed and pensive manner.
Posted by Greenlight, Wednesday, 16 August 2006 11:14:10 PM
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Since Jesus taught us the prayer as prayed by the Essene community and John the baptizer, 'Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven". Obviously heaven is not some futuristic dream but a present reality not yet realised on Earth. Heaven is not a physical creation but a spiritual creation where the purity of God reigns. The prayer envisages a time when the spirit of God motivates us a humans to fully live in his character, actions, attitudes and wisdom.

The contrast exists of heaven with Earth [one is an eternal spiritual state the other a temporal natural state both co-existing] and the prayer invisages the purity of heaven be realised upon the earth. The use of the term "heaven" in the prayer does not refer to the created space, but the nature of the unseen a spiritual non dimentional state [to our minds created space best represents the idea]. By our praying we are from our deepest desire praying for a better world where right living is practised as normal. No more wars, tears, disease etc, but peace, healing, and fullness of life.

What remains eternal is purity of character, godlike actions, holy attitudes that enhance life, and wisdom in relationship with the divine and our neighbours, accepting responsibility for our character, attitudes, action and knowledge. Our bodies are borrowed from the substance of the earth; who we really are is expressed in our spirit. All those that have failed to acknowledge or respect [worship] the highest ideals as revealed by Jesus Christ of forgivness and blessing of ones enemies lives in denial of the will of God and is ultimately cast into Gehannah [God's garbage dump]. Those that live in God already realise they walk in the heavenlies, even if evil still persecutes or plagues them.
Posted by Philo, Thursday, 17 August 2006 1:11:12 AM
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Heaven is a clear conscience .
Hell is the torment of guilt .

To reside in heaven you must repent your sins .
How much clearer could it be ?

Now ,who ,what is god ?
God is the creator & controller of all things . In fact wherever you travel on the globe you will meet people who regardless of religion will universally identify what god is & that all that occurs everywhere is in effect gods will .
God is what we know as mother nature .
Every natural emotion we have is natures way of ensuring survival , This applies to all living things .
Ever wondered why those who identify as being of leftist political persuasion & believe that the state ought be supreme often display a degree contempt for religion ? This contempt is just an expression of fear of the natural competition that exists between all living things . We call it survival of the fittest . Natures way .

That’s how I see it anyway .
Posted by jamo, Thursday, 17 August 2006 1:51:37 AM
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If there is a heaven, which gods are in it? Jehovah? Yweh? Shiva? Zarathustra? Thor? Apollo? Zeus? How many others? Who amongst them gets to be boss? Is it a democracy? How do they resolve conflicts? If there are conflicts, does heaven then become not so heavenly, even hellish?

What do the people who make it to heaven do all the time? Do they have human needs & desires, a conscious mind and a capacity for right and wrongdoing? What if they do wrong? Do they get 'voted off the island'? What if the righteous cosnpire against the weak to expel them?

It would be hell to run heaven.
Posted by PK, Thursday, 17 August 2006 9:04:57 AM
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