David, sorry for the tardy reply. I have posted this more than once.

Here are the neocons in their own words:

"It won't be long when you will see Iraqi oil flowing to Haifa," Mr Netanyahu told a group of British investors in London. "It is just a matter of time until the pipeline is reconstituted and Iraqi oil will flow to the Mediterranean."

The 8" pipeline was closed during the first Arab-Israeli war in 1948 and has never been used since. Its rehabilitation would dramatically enhance regional economic co-operation after decades of war and mutual suspicion.

The National Infrastructure Ministry has recently conducted research indicating that construction of a 42-inch diameter pipeline between Kirkuk and Haifa would cost about $400,000 per kilometer. The old Mosul-Haifa pipeline was only 8 inches in diameter.

Oil pipelines are a highly vulnerable means of exporting oil, requiring a predictable long-term reliability of the countries through which they pass. Knowing this, the Israelis can only begin their technical assessment of the pipeline once they are convinced that the existing political barriers can be overcome. This requires new regimes in Baghdad and Damascus.

- there it all is again David. You must have missed it.

Cheers, Chris.

My side, logic? Funnily enough, I don't have a side. I am simply an ordinary Australian trying to make sense of lunatic events in the ME. My own presumption is that truth is the first casualty in war. Thus I try to examine the news with a critical eye.

Re the kids writing on shells at Kiryat Shmona. I can find no evidence of it being anything but a media stunt gone wrong. According to the Guardian http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/archives/2006/07/20/lies_damn_lies_and_war_pictures.html "some bloggers have wondered if the media was culpable for perhaps coaxing the children into writing on the missiles, though Goldman's related account suggests it was the parents who invited the children to write messages." If you've got any evidence that the photos are fake, then put up or shut up.

As for the ambulance hit by the Israelis, do you mean
this one http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=34187
or this one http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2006/07/24/18290953.php
or these two? http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/EVOD-6S8JKX?OpenDocument

According to The Australian "at least 10 Lebanese ambulances bearing the emblem of the international red cross have instead become targets in Israeli air strikes that have killed more than a dozen civilian passengers being transported to hospitals" http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19915049-2703,00.html . I think you'll have to post a link as I have no idea which of these stories you are trying to discredit. Or are you trying to say that ALL the stories on ambulances being hit are made up?

Re Cana, having looked at your link I discovered that an un-named source made some vague allegations (I don't read French so maybe Google's translation was at fault). You'll have to do a little better than that.

Sorry logic, but your posts merely discredit the "side" you are supporting.

David, you questioned me regarding two quotes that I chose which are found almost directly prior to and following the Ten Commandments in the Book of Deuteronomy. You asked me what my point was and recommended that I research the Old Testament more. Perhaps I should, except that I pretty much grew tired of it. I was a Christian youth leader for years and read most of the Bible during that time. For the first 18 or so years of my life I was at church (various denominations) nearly every Sunday.

Forgive the personal nature of this but it's important. For years I taught and encouraged other people (mostly teenagers) to read and understand the Bible. For Christians the Old Testament is primarily studied to learn about 'Original Sin' (Adam and Eve) and hence the purpose of Christ dying on the cross, the relationship of their offspring with Yahweh (God), the use of the Israelites' exodus from Egypt (Moses, parting the Red Sea and all that) as a metaphor for salvation through Christ, as well as a number of other metaphors, and general teachings regarding philosophy, wisdom, etc. (eg. Book of Proverbs, Psalms, etc).

I've stood in congregations of 700+ people 'speaking in tongues', I've listened to preachers from quite popular groups like 'Campus Bible Study' discussing quite matter-of-factly that the planet is only 9,000 years old ('cos you can trace it back to Adam and Eve through the Bible), among numerous other absurdities. I have experienced first hand on many many occasions the way believers try to use every psychological technique in the book to not only convince themselves but also others that all that Scheissse is fair dinkum. And to attempt to chastise them if they 'turn away', like I did.

My greatest ever 'spiritual breakthough' was to realise that I had to think for myself. I am now a free man.

Boaz please how me some text in the Gospels where Jesus Christ supports war. Besides, Christ said to follow his example, not to become a religious nut.

Praise God! - I'm no longer a 'Christian'.

Colin, You didn't quite understand my San Francisco Chronicle article and you made two notable errors in your own. 1 - The Telegraph is not a Murdoch paper; 2 - The Palestinian textbook issue is far from a hoax.
Matthew Kalman, Jerusalem Correspondent

@Scout ... re your post all I can say is.......Its one of your best and most balanced to date..quite agree, “my work is done” :)

@ChrisShaw thanx Chris, I do appreciate the importance of oil in the greater global/international level of this drama playing out. The only points I’d make are..

1/ It’s in fact a reality which is common to all nations.
2/ It is only one, and not the primary dimension of the current conflict (my opinion)
3/ That pipeline will go through Jordan(?), and create income for them that they otherwise would not have. (I can’t see it going through Syria)

But even if the oil issue was the prime ingredient in all this, I again humbly raise the challenge to you, -can you show me any country which does not act with its own short and long term self interest at heart ?
Are you in fact hinting to some ‘better ideology’ which you desire us to catch on to ? Would that ideology be “Marxism”? I only ask that because the article which took you to ‘Nirvana’ was a Marxist one :)

@KEIRAN
The family on the beach. Ok.. if the Israelis did this, we have to ask the following questions.

1/ Did they attack in good faith (believing it to be a rocket launch team ?) If so, then it falls into the category of a tragedy of war which we can all grieve over.
2/ Did they deliberately target a ‘family’ for some kind of ‘sport’ ? I doubt that. So, it leaves us with point 1.

Further, tragic things do happen, like innocent passengers on a bus, blown to bits by heartless murdering bombers where there is absolutely no question or ambiguity about the culpable and willful intent. In terms of relative morality, this is far worse, but as I often say, a miss is as good as a mile when it comes to sin. If we miss the target by a millimeter or a mile, -we still miss.

We are all answerable to the Almighty.

Boaz David you go over the same old stories, trying to fill the gaping holes in the exuses you make in support of Israeli warmongers, there is only one reason for all the killing in the Middle East , it is that outragous lie, that has been told for thousands of years, even the God invented by religious fanatics has been used as a tool to support this lie,a manufactured truth that says God promised the Land of Palestine to the Jews, and that a Temple Has to be built for their invented God, if God created the Universe, then God can move to where ever he/she pleases, does not need to act like a greedy racist human being,
BD is unable to see the truth, he believes God sits on a Gold throne with a Gold crown on his head surrounded by servants, why has this God, to be seen to act like a greedy human religious fanatic full of hatred for non Jews, because that God was created in the image of its creator, maybe this God was called King Solomon,and maybe BD beleives God is a Jew, sorry mate God is not a Jew or a member of any God Club,
Fancy that Mel Gibson is arrested by a Policeman who said he was a Jew, so what did Mel really say, is it "payback time" for The Passion of Christ and the new movie about the holocaust, maybe we should check out The Protocols of the Elders of Zion for the answer, mangotree