That's progress, scout. Stop drowning the little perishers and "desex" them instead.

I would like to know how you justify this position, which is effectively denying the creature its normal life attributes.

I know that we humans value sexual activity in a different way to many animals, but to deprive them the right to reproduce seems a little self-indulgent on our part. Is it simply to ease our conscience a little, in that it is slightly less overtly cruel than the drowning-in-a-sack routine?

But on reflection, you are right in one sense, and that is that any progress is positive. It does beg the question, however, of how much longer do we have to evolve as humans before we realize that it isn't just about drowning them or cutting off their bits, but the whole concept defies common sense.

I don’t get it, Pericles.

You said: “And yes, I am suggesting we "outbreed" pets completely. Except that in my words, it would be that we make the keeping of animals for recreational or work purposes illegal, and punishable by a fine, imprisonment or both.”

How are we supposed to do that if pets continue to multiply? How are we supposed to stop keeping pets and outbreed them when they can’t be dissexed?

Pericles

You appear to be merely trolling by suggesting that drowning of unwanted litters is preferable to de-sexing.

You posts on other threads are generally of a high standard and reasonable, however, I find your POV on domestic animals irrational and therefore, not worthy of debate.

I have stated what I do to assist with the care of domestics animals, if you care so much about domestic animals just what do you do to help?

Besides wind up people who genuinely care.

Scout, I am truly sorry that you cannot accept that it is possible to love animals for what they are rather than what we have turned them into.

>>You appear to be merely trolling by suggesting that drowning of unwanted litters is preferable to de-sexing.<<

Listen, I think that applied to domestic perts, both are barbaric. Choosing between them is like offering the choice between gas chamber and laboratory experimentation.

>I have stated what I do to assist with the care of domestics animals, if you care so much about domestic animals just what do you do to help?<<

I don't keep them, full stop.

I do not keep them in cages, feed them manufactured gunk, or cut off their organs in order to satisfy some selfish urge to control their lives for my personal gratification.

If it were illegal to keep animals in captivity, then the demand for them would disappear. We could then treat their control in the same way as with other wild species - some culling, some desexing, depending upon the particular need. We don't have any particular problems with other animals living wild, why should the freeing of captive animals be different?

I fail to see that it is more irrational to believe that this fixation with animal enslavement is acceptable behaviour than to believe that it is more honest and consistent for us to set them free.

All the "problems" involved in divesting ourselves of this unnatural activity is of our own making.

>>just what do you do to help? Besides wind up people who genuinely care.<<

Excuse me, genuinely care about what?

Keeping animals in cages is a feature of caring? Desexing them simply to prevent them from being a nuisance by inconveniently reproducing is a feature of caring? Keeping them on the end of a stretch of leather as you take them for a "walk" is a feature of caring?

I am certain that we will soon evolve past this somewhat primitive stage.

Pericles

I agree that caging animals is wrong. My animal companions are not caged. Their long lives and the love and protection they have given me indicate happy creatures.

I disagree with you regarding desexing - it is no more detrimental for animals than it is for humans. My former cat lived to 18 years - he was very happy and loving for all of those 18 years.

I am sorry you don't enjoy the love of a pet. They are far more reliable than any human I have ever known. At the aged care home I used to work at - pets were brought in regularly for the wellbeing of the residents - both animals and humans clearly enjoyed these encounters.

You ask what I care about - I care about the well being of animals. I clean out cages at an animal welfare shelter. I care for my cat responsibly - she was an abandoned animal who now has a good home. She also provides a service - she is an excellent mouser (although she is kept indoors at night). Finally, I buy free range animal products.

You still haven't explained what ACTION you take regards animal welfare apart from condemning other people for seeing the situation differently to you. You are sounding like Boaz et al on this topic.

So I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this topic - I am not interested in a p*ssing contest - which is all this can amount to as I believe you are very single minded on this issue.

No doubt we will cross paths on another thread at some future time.

Take care, Pericles.

Pericles, do you agree that farm animals are in much bigger need of help than house pets? I am interested in what kind of action you can think of to improve life for animals on farms. All ideas can be helpful.

You ask “ We don't have any particular problems with other animals living wild, why should the freeing of captive animals be different?”
Why? Because there are animals that have been brought into Australia which are a big threat to the Australian Wildlife.

Take cats- there are HUGE problems concerning feral cats.
Unsterilised cats multiply rapidly, become feral, have three litters a year, and feral cats have more kittens per litter than house cats; they overproduce due to the high mortality rate of kittens.
To think that ‘dissexing some and culling some’ is going to solve the problems is rather impractical and naive. We would need many teams of full-time cat catchers and vets to 'dissex some' and we would need to build the Great Wall of Australia to 'cull some'. Btw didn't you mention that dissexing is cruel- and now you suddenly give this as an option? What is it to be: dissex or not dissex?
Would you really want to be responsible for the killing of our native animals and the suffering of cats?

Huge numbers of healthy cats (dogs too) are being killed since the RSPCA has a kitten overload because people have failed to dissex their animals.

I mentioned suffering because I once watched a documentary on the feral cat problem in Australia. Life for a feral cat is really tough- they have a terrible life! Mortality rates among feral kittens is very high as I said- about half of them die.
Nearly all feral cats have internal and external parasites.
Many cats become blind due to untreated eye infections.

The two cats I have now were a present from my husband 10 years ago, who were at death row at our local pound. I am glad I can be there to care for them.