Most of Australia's knowledge of Indonesia comes from the situation with East Timor when we capitulated to the take over and then stood by for 24 years while 183,000 innocent men, women and children were slaughtered.

While doing that we treated East Timorese refugees like criminals, some we sent home with a bag of rice and a ground sheet after trying to pretend they were really Portuguese.

Downer actively and blatantly lied to the UN and US when the referendum was happening which resulted in further massacres.

We forced Indonesia to "accept" refugees that wanted to come to Australia but failed to tell Australians that the only reason Indonesia agreed was because we paid for the whole mess and some 230 refugees from Iraq and Afghanistan still rot on Lombok at our expense. Hundreds of others were forced back to those places by Indonesia because they are not signatory to the refugee convention, which Australia is well aware of and chooses to ignore.

If Indonesia don't want us to accept West Papuans they should stop persecuting them and sit down for reasonable talks on autonomy.

Sound simplistic? Nope just the way the rules are written.

"Relax visa's so we can get together and share a nasi gorang or meat pie" How utterly absurd.
As bad as Marilyn's tirade against the wicked Australians.
What must be acknowledged is that we are different but respect should be given and it should be returned. So far it seems to be a one way street.
While Indonesia shelters the cold blooded assassins who murdered Australians ,not once but twice, Australians will always view Indonesia as far from being respectable, indeed verging on criminal.
And in return Australians are asked to dig deep to help this country's never ending disasters. Maybe they should ask themselves what they are doing so wrong.

The only source of problem between Indonesia and Australia came from Australians, who enjoy bashing Indonesia every time they have the opportunity as can be seen from the Schapelle Corby thingy. Indonesia has been given the role of the old "northern peril" bogeyman that always spooked white Australians insecure of their position so close to Asia.

Naturally, Indonesians like any other people dislike being bashed. If Australians do not respect us, you must be looney to expect Indonesians to like Australians. Overall, however, I don't think Indonesians really care about minor country Australia at all. Australia is just a weakling country with little influence or impact for most Indonesians. So, don't worry Ozzies, we Indonesians never really get bothered with you guys.

People to people ties already exist and have for some time. Tell the Corby family about the virtues of people to people ties. One daughter married a Balinese guy and brought up their family in Balinese tradition. Sister comes to visit and look how good people to people ties were for them.

The problem is not between ordinary Aussies and Budis. The problem is between the politicians and bureaucrats who are defending their political interests against the rest of us.. The Australian Government should do exactly what the Indonesian government does - lobby vigourously and openly for our Aussie interests - including the interests of ordinary Aussies in Indonesia who are so easily sold out. That is the only way we will get respect. My Indonesian wife thinks the Australian government is incredibly stupid for caving in to Indonesia on the Papua asylum-seekers. PTBI is right on the ball. The Australian Government will be regarded as a joke and a laughing stock the way we sell off our interests and our people (eg. David Hicks). Unfortunately, as long as DFAT and the rest are controlled by the Jakarta Lobby we don't have much hope.

Hi there
I don't know a lot about Indonesia: I've only ever worked with one or two and I found them great colleagues.

I have read a little about Indonesian culture(s) and language(s), but, again, not a lot. In fact, just enough to know that there are some very different ways of doing things in Indonesia (both different from Australian and different as in variegated).

Neither the article nor the posts have enlightened me very much, but maybe knowledge of Indonesia is assumed by the writers: not a safe assumption all in all. It couldn't be that we Australians assume that Indonesia is just like everywhere else, just with a few quaint customs, because the writer and the posters all seem to have some pretty direct connections with Indonesia.

So, how varied is the culture, the language, the religion, etc within Indonesia? And how different is it from Australia in the deep and meaningful ways like how people think about things?

Or we can just keep slinging insults at each other.

odsoc

It seems that it is going to take some time for Australian governments and voters to fully grasp that Indonesia is undergoing tremendous change. It has thrown off one of the world's most enduring authoritarian regimes. Then, with a minimum of upheaval, it held free and fair elections. These are achievements of which Indonesians are rightly proud.

Fortunately, the strict adherence to a unitary state has weakened and decentralisation has occurred. There have been a lot of teething problems - particularly for foreign investors - but overall, the process offers hope for the long term territorial integrity of Indonesia.

Both Australia and Indonesia must work towards the common goal of making regional autonomy for West Papua a reality.

In respect of terrorism, little attention is given to Indonesia's successes in the fight against terrorism. The trials for the Bali bombers was televised from an open court - something which the United States and other western countries are yet to do. The advice I have been given by Australian lawyers is that Bashir may not have been convicted in an Australian court, given our strict rules on the admissability of evidence.

That said, in time, the people of Indonesia will come to understand how a mature democracy like Australia actually works: that a government's decision to deny visas to people with a well-founded fear of persecution may be challenged and possibly overturned by an independent tribunal; that a professional military stays in the barracks; or that commentary by journalists is beyond the control of the prime minister.

We in Australia inherited 700 years of England's gradual democratic evolution and the rule of law. We must be patient with countries that are starting from scratch and which may be taking a different path to democracy. At the same time, Prime Minister Howard has built a domestic base for our foreign policy by saying that our culture and democratic traditions will not be traded off as part of our engagement with the region. I am confident that Indonesia and Australia have two leaders who can talk candidly about joining these two strands together.