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The Forum > Article Comments > Wanderings in a desert > Comments

Wanderings in a desert : Comments

By Donna Jacobs Sife, published 9/6/2006

The loss of innocence in the Red Centre of Australia.

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Savage Pencil says: "...there were no pyramids, temples, monuments or even permanent buildings of any size in pre-1788 Australia. Yet indigenous people managed to erect these in what today is Cambodia, Mexico, Micronesia, Peru, Zimbabwe, etc, etc, etc.

Now we are making progress. Something positive about the various other cultures. A recognition of the value of multi-cultural contributions to our existential questions. Great. No more Muslim bashing.

Donna, Rainer, JohnJ, Ash, Keith and any indigenous people who understand, or other folk who appreciate the cultural aspects of the indigenous peoples, sigh: MY BLEEDIN' HEART GOES OUT TO YOU ALL (Just a tic 'till I wipe the spittle off my screen for Bunny Wigglesworth. B.W. is Zorro's gay alter-ego).

And if all you indifferent folk think that Leigh and his N.S. comrades don't think the same about anything outside their bigoted culture - then think again.

S.P. goes on, as if to show that there is a gate hanging off him/her, and inadvertantly affirms Rainer's explanation of Eurocentric thinking and its inability to comprehend indigenous culture. Her materialist conception of cultural advancement (Marxist tendency evident there) and her inabilty to grasp the cultural significance of the beautiful aspects of indigenous culture, such as, the significant pre-invasion cultural wonder where 500 distinct groups were using 200 distinct languages suggests the abstract nature of indigenous achievements is beyond S.P., Z and Leigh's child-like concrete reasoning.

There is also the many religious variations that I think need preserving in the context of a modern society. Much like we "white fellas" still choose to cling to our various religious, academic, and cultural mores, myths, ideals, ideas and ceremonies.

The Australian cultural landscape wouldn't be Australian without indigenous cultures. (Sorry Rainer et el I know this isn't where you are coming from but I'm just a rancitasiocentric who loves multiculturalism.)

Boaz we live in a modern world where Christians in aeroplanes drop bombs on non combatants and kill and maim little children and innocent folk, so don't talk to Rancitas about barbaric practices until you sort your own Christian backyard.
Posted by rancitas, Tuesday, 13 June 2006 12:54:53 PM
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BOAZ; circumcision is rarely self-administered and its links to the Christian God's covenant with Abraham is instrinsic.

Ascribe to your Christian boys a razorblade and the freedom of choice to self-mutilate for the price of salvation or the FREEEEEEEEEEEEEDOM of relief to put away the razor... the warmth begins flooding back into their clammy face and hands.... LIFE begins in freedom. Halelujah !

Subincision is culturally linked to birth-control in arid desertlands where the birth of another child would jeopardise the survival of the group. It is entrenched into manhood and worn as an undisputed honour. Fertility is deliberately restored through another cultural practice when conditions are suitable.

Your condemnation of the cultural practice of sacrificing twins in Borneo is contradicted by the other side of Christian salvation. Feedom, you say, basking in the eternal glory of God, BUT, for those that choose otherwise, eternal damnation and infinite suffering in the pit-fires of hell, for ever and ever and ever. But its a freedom of choice offered by a loving God, even though the consequences of choosing wrongly are infinitely worse than the perceived agony of subincision or infanticide.
Posted by Neil Hewett, Tuesday, 13 June 2006 12:57:07 PM
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You should all put yourselves in this position.

You experience the death of people close to you.
You cannot find work.
You see ill friends and relatives taken to far away places and you experience a loss of contact and knowledge of their well being.
You know people who have been removed from their families. It is something you fear.
You and people around you commonly experience accidentally injury.
You are likely to be, or fear that you will be, attacked physically or sexually.

You experience the occurrence of one or more of these things every six weeks. (Ok maybe the worst case senario. But 7 times a year is not uncommon.)

People around you smoke, drink and take drugs.
You live in an overcrowded home.
You have little supervision.
You have very poor nutrition.
You experience ill health.
You are bored.
You feel hopeless.
You are seventeen.

Now ask the two following questions, understanding of course you’ve had or are having a limited education:

What do you expect would be your lifestyle choices?

Now then is blaming you or your ‘stone-age’ culture for your situation and for the condition of your community going to alleviate the crushing conditions you live your life under?
Posted by keith, Tuesday, 13 June 2006 3:08:24 PM
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EnerGee, as you used neither "dying race" nor "stone-age culture" I don't know how you can conclude my barb was aimed at you. The guilty parties know who they are.

As to Tjukurpa, I don't believe I'm in a position to judge. The best I can do is recommend Barry Hill's "Broken Song: T.G.H. Strehlow and Aboriginal Possession" (if you haven't read it). Strehlow dealt mainly with the Arrernte, but this excellent book tries to come to grips with Central Australian Aboriginal spiritual beliefs. If the 800-plus pages are a bit much (but believe me it is an excellent read) there's a doco called "Mr Strehlow's Films" which covers some of the same ground.

Ted Strehlow gathered songs and sacred objects, eventually publishing his magnum opus "Songs of Central Australia". In this book he makes a case (probably unsuccessfully) that Aboriginal sacred song is an oral literature comparable with Homer or the Elder Edda.

In Hill's book a younger Aboriginal man is quoted as saying that they had given away the old ways to become like whitefellas. But they weren't treated like whites, so they had to keep some of the old culture or else they had nothing (sorry, I'm paraphrasing from memory here).

Anyway, this will positively be my last post on this thread.
Posted by Johnj, Tuesday, 13 June 2006 8:05:20 PM
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Bonjour rancitas

My great-great grandmother was indigenous ... I keep thinking that the reason that she married a white fella was to escape the misogyny of Aboriginal culture. (Other relatives came from Scotland as noted before).

There may well have been 500 distinct groups using 200 different languages but is this "Tower of Babel" that much of an achievement. Should I be equally impressed by 500 farmers groups devising 200 different types of barbed wire?

The Australian cultural landscape is the sum of many parts. But at Uluru the Anangu interpretation of the land is force-fed to visitors over and above the scientific explanation of the national park's natural wonders. It's probably because of this "force-fed" aspect that I tend not to think of Uluru as an Aboriginal cultural landscape but see it as a "politically-correct" Australian cultural landscape. However I do find a 'connection' to the Aboriginal-ness of other Australian landscapes where the mantra of "connection to land" isn't shoved down my throat. Mutawintji National Park in western New South Wales is a case in point. Very powerful, very subtle as well.
Posted by Savage Pencil, Tuesday, 13 June 2006 10:21:29 PM
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Desert wandering: what a load of guff and trash.
one quick trip up the road and you "know it all" I realy think you should spend a bit of time with your subject first. I'v lived in the NT for a large part of my life, and we see people like you every day come along and do nothing better than make a bad problem worse. the money these people get would blow your sox off. If you spent any time you would realise that, I suggest you take the"blinkers off" and go and have another look, then you might "see" what I mean.
About the only parts you got right is the stars and terain in S.A but thats not there fault just a bad gardner.
Posted by bob4711, Wednesday, 14 June 2006 9:32:24 AM
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