Firstly, thanks Keith for your kind words. Thanks Leigh for reminding us that you're not trying to "convince anyone of anything". You certainly haven't convinced me, I require something beyond empty sloganeering.

When in an earlier post I complained about "judgemental bilious spite", some people obviously took it as a challenge. Posts have abounded with "pompous vacuous statements", "bleeding heart left-wing loonies", "zealots" and my old favourite "stone-age culture". Hyperbole, cliches and invective are no substitute for rational debate. Many posters seem more interested in bashing their ideological enemies than in actually engaging with the issues. Of course its easier to dish out insults than to critically examine the problem.

So to the facts, seeing as no-one else has bothered with them. An excellent start is http://www.healthinfonet.ecu.edu.au which has more indigenous health stats than is probably good for your health. There's a paper on alcohol consumption in the NT http://espace.lis.curtin.edu.au/archive/00000132/ Interestingly indigenous alcohol consumption is about 25% greater than non-indigenous, but my anecdotal experience suggests that alcohol is a serious problem for the whole community in the NT.

After 200-some years of European settlement, the Australian environment is a mess. Salination, erosion, water pollution, depleted fisheries, coral bleaching, feral pests, weed invasion etc etc. Various posters have asked what Aborigines can teach us whitefellas. Perhaps, as they've been here [insert number of choice] thousand years, it might be they can tell us about "respect for the land". It seems to me that moralising about the superiority of European culture has a hollow ring when we think about the problems we face.

Those of us who are accused of racism ,bigotry and all the rest of the over used outworn slogans, regard such statements as the tripe they are. They cannot hurt us because we know what a shallow root they come from.
I wish for nothing more than aboriginals have the same chances , the same education as the rest of this country.
Why shouldn't there be aboriginal nurses, doctors ? The reason we haven't got them is because there is buckly's chance of any Aborigine gaining the education to achieve the necessary degrees.
This is totally wrong, surely the aboriginal people would rather be treated by their own.
And as long as they are held back in some rotten outback camp , they are doomed to live a life of nothing.
And if that is racist, so be it.

Leigh to Zorro

"This is typical of a certain type of Australia who thinks personal abuse and a lot of noise will get them what they want. It is quite laughable to me and, I'm sure, to Redneck, Mikjo and you as well."

Zorro to Rancitas:

"I can imagine you frothing at the mouth as you finished off your bile-ridden diatribe about mainstream Aussies in a fury of capital letter words. Go get your crayons and finish off your colouring-in books instead of posting drivel to this forum. Better still, get a life. You’re ravings clearly indicate that you’re a bloody idiot, Rancitas, and that is all the time I will waste on you."

Yes Leigh, whatever you say Leigh, you have no credibity, as even the most "gullible and ignorant" can see

In the Alice Springs News of August 31, 2005 (http://www.alicespringsnews.com.au/1235.html), Gregory Andrews, who was the manager of the Mutitjulu Working Together Project, says that "The use of motor vehicles for a few months before disposing of them when they break down is a visible manifestation of economic passivity and waste in Mutitjulu." The continued illegal disposal of broken down vehicles had created what one person referred to as a "World Heritage car dump".

Yet according to Johnj these same creators of the World Heritage car dump can teach us whitefellas about "respect for the land".

I'd suggest that Johnj and his ilk take a visit to Mutitjulu and see how little respect is actually shown for the land that they live on by many people within that Anangu Aboriginal community.

Research indicates that pre-invasion there were 750,000 indigenous people in Australia, and now there are around 200,000. There were 500 distinct groups using 200 distinct languages.
Research indicates that pre-invasion there were 750,000 indigenous people in Australia, and now there are around 200,000. There were 500 distinct groups using 200 distinct languages.
Research indicates that pre-invasion there were 750,000 indigenous people in Australia, and now there are around 200,000. There were 500 distinct groups using 200 distinct languages.
Research indicates that pre-invasion there were 750,000 indigenous people in Australia, and now there are around 200,000. There were 500 distinct groups using 200 distinct languagesResearch indicates that pre-invasion there were 750,000 indigenous people in Australia, and now there are around 200,000. There were 500 distinct groups using 200 distinct languages.
Research indicates that pre-invasion there were 750,000 indigenous people in Australia, and now there are around 200,000. There were 500 distinct groups using 200 distinct languages.
Research indicates that pre-invasion there were 750,000 indigenous people in Australia, and now there are around 200,000. There were 500 distinct groups using 200 distinct languages.
Research indicates that pre-invasion there were 750,000 indigenous people in Australia, and now there are around 200,000. There were 500 distinct groups using 200 distinct languagesResearch indicates that pre-invasion there were 750,000 indigenous people in Australia, and now there are around 200,000. There were 500 distinct groups using 200 distinct languages.
Research indicates that pre-invasion there were 750,000 indigenous people in Australia, and now there are around 200,000. There were 500 distinct groups using 200 distinct languages.
Research indicates that pre-invasion there were 750,000 indigenous people in Australia, and now there are around 200,000. There were 500 distinct groups using 200 distinct languages.
Research indicates that pre-invasion there were 750,000 indigenous people in Australia, and now there are around 200,000. There were 500 distinct groups using 200 distinct languages.

Research of these posts indicates that post invasion there are many distinct racist groups that are trying to undermine other distinct racial groups and their cultures. This is racism

Thanks EnerGee, for a post of some substance, but go easy on the sarcasm. The full Greg Andrews article may be viewed at http://www.bennelong.com.au/articles/pdf/gandrews2006.pdf Please don't take this as an endorsement of the Bennelong Society, who are too much like a mouthpiece for Fed Govt indigenous policy for my taste.

I haven't been to Mutitjulu, but have been to a few communities in Central Australia, ranging from good to abominable. I've seen the petrol bowsers in cages, the wrecked houses, the rubbish and the dogs. A friend (who has done work in quite a number of Pitjantjatjara, Ngaanyatjarra and Yankunytjatjara communities) rates Mutitjulu as one of the worst. The wrecked cars are perhaps the most tangible symbol of a truly disfunctional community, but by comparison with petrol-sniffing, alcoholism or domestic violence this is a minor problem.

I don't mean to romanticise Aboriginal people, but I am convinced that some (not all) do have a deep attachment to their land. Some (for example) will say, "I can't tell you about this country, my land is 200 km over there". I don't believe that European custodianship of Australia is anything to brag about, given the problems we face.

Mickijo, you don't need to go to "some rotten outback camp" to find squalor, poverty and hopelessness. Even a cursory glance at the town camps of Alice Springs will show the same things. A "dry" camp in the desert can be a much superior place to one of the Alice Springs town camps. I agree that education, along with decent housing, healthcare, less grog and more jobs would go a long way to remedying the problems. But as Greg Andrews puts it, you need "appropriate consultation, compassion, and timing".