Oh p-lease Persius! Now you are really speaking nonsense. You have forgotten something. My Grandfather was also a settler. Did I demonise him, or some of his best mates? They were just farmers, mate. Unfortunately, too many of their rivals were also murderers, and the majority were in control of the Government at that time.

Also, I never said that the Churnsides never hunted foxes and a few rabbits. That is not the point. It is just that they also shot Aboriginal people as well.

The time-frame that you gave for land clearing is irrelevant. It was happening before this period, and after. It was still happening at the start of the 20th century.

We were a family charged with "treason". You only believe what you read? At the time, treason was a jailable offense. Who do you think would publish articles under these conditions at that time? That is why we have oral history. Even Israel accepts oral history to tell stories of the holocaust. Are you going to say that didn't exist either? Your rationale is outrageus.

We have volumes of diaries and written documents, and letters that tell this story. We refuse to publish this without the permission of the Aboriginal elders. The names of those murdered were mentioned as well as the names of the murderers, as Grandad knew them all personally. The Elders always insisted on silence as they never trusted the colonial authorities, even when it was murder. He followed their laws, not colonial the laws. The colonial troopers never listened anyway and were known to destroy evidence. We are not going to break those laws either. Unless you are Aboriginal, you are not capable of understanding. Dead people are a tricky issue.

I have no reason to question your grandfather from the information you have given me. I can only assume they were decent people unless I have information to prove otherwise.

I have grown to be proud of PTBI. We appear to have similar frustrations towards those that are incapable of seeing things from various points of view.

Before you reply, please stop, and reconsider what you write, as a point of relevance. The topic is about Indonesia and its Islands, and how Australia responds to this. Please move on. Lets talk about the topic, not my family archives. Admitedly, there is an arguement of Australian prejudice. There could be some prejudice from both the Australian Government point of view as well as the Indonesian Government point of view. Maybe not. There could be a different point of view larger than both. The topic should now shift back to the original article. We have established that our Indonesian writers and Australian writers care about human rights. That is postitive. We are also learning about each other. Lets expand on this. Wouldn't it be interesting if our Governments were actually reading this?

Indonesia is not the problem.

Slack, too long in the tooth Australian Governments are.

This is clear from John Howard's failure to listen to majority opinion over the Sale of the Snowy.

John Howard has stated the main aim of the sale is to privately fund upgrades to Snowy infrastructure.

HE implicitly assures us that since it is private enerprise, competition will drive markets. He assumes prices of water and electricity will be fair at all times. However, because there is NO competition in this dubious Government-private partnership, the eventual majority shareholder company (most likely Monsanto/Soylent companies) can and will by law, do as they please and gouge consumers. I assume Howard will say he can legislate to protect communities against this inevitable public gouging. However as seen in the NSW Cross City Funnel there is NO reasonable expectation that his or any other government will be able to protect the public or the environment for that matter. Their only recourse, as in NSW is a public buy back of the Snowy at an onerous cost to taxpayers.

In fact there would be some incentive for likely owners to facilitate such a situation and reap huge windfalls without much exertion.

John Howard loves the concept of Private enterprise management of Public assets because it makes his job easy. He only thinks of himself as usual. He has not thought the situation through and it is up to us who have thought about it to take action to prevent the Snowy sale. I have analysed what is taking place in similar situations around the world (eg Montana dams) and in NSW and the rest of Australia. Privatisation in public infrastructure where there is a clear monopoly and no legal safeguards are NOT in the public interest and always end in unmitigated disaster.

An alternative would be to put riders on the sale that allow public scrutiny of environmental and pricing strategies at all times throughout the life of the acquisition. Mind you, in that case, no one would want it!

To Saintletcher et al and those frustrated and expending energy on Perseus, see http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/user.asp?id=8383. Note the javelin rattlings reminiscent of Cervantes' Don Quixote's tiltings.

Bring on the ALP, Howard and the coalition can look you in the eye and say with a straight face the earth is flat. Go back 15 to 20 years and no one liked Howard because they could see straight though him. Next time you have that vote in front of you, vote 1 labor or geens , democrates, independent. I would rather a sensible 15yo run this country than the current Libs and Nats. They continue to sell off all public assets even when the people say don't.

Dear Interest rate voters, your vote is the reason for this current mob of Cowards. Howard does not control interest rates.

Work Choices is going to cost 500 million+ to implement, A real leader would of spent that on renewable energy and childcare.

Don Quixote indeed. I know a windmill is a windmill, and a monster is a monster, and I think the Dutch, the experts on windmills, in Indonesia might have discussed with people there what a windmill does, and what a monster does, and not to confuse the two...

I am hoping that the generation of discussion here is like the windmill, as they are useful. When people get paranoid and start shooting at the productive windmill, seeing monsters that don't exist, like Don Quixote, then we play a loser's game. Interesting to mention Don Quixote. An heroic Spanish legend, but not exactly productive.

I don't know how the Snowy River issue visited this page, but for an update, John Howard changed his mind on this, and it was actually the ALP State Premier Morris Iemma, that fumed in anger that the sale was dropped by John Howard. Now Morris Iemma looks like the monster, and the windmill is just a hydroelectric power station on the Snowy River. Who is Don Quixote? John Howard or Morris Iemma? Do they both curse at monsters that don't exist?
Meanwhile, back to Indonesian relations, some want to stay on topic....