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Papua crucial to Indonesia : Comments
By Richard Chauvel, published 29/3/2006Indonesia needs international support to help reduce its dependence on violence to govern Papua.
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Posted by maracas, Saturday, 1 April 2006 6:50:46 PM
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PTBI
you surprise me. Let me correct one point you made in a previous post about me needing to "moderate my hatred of Muslims". You misunderstand my position. I am fervent and passionate about my condemnation of 'Islam'. But as a Christian I regard any Muslim in the Biblical sense of 'my neighbour'. I hope you know what this means.. read the parable of the good samaritan if u need. You have indicated you are Christian, but seriously it seems in name only brother... "nationalistic arrogance" "Foul language" (WT*) Ridicule "You are at the bottom of the food chain, and powerless" etc... No nation attempts to rely on its own strength alone, hence ANZUS treaty. But don't neglect the "Commonwealth". No need to respond to claims by Aussies about PNG with 'ridicule' you are making reasonable factual statements such as the UN supervised referendum, if this is all true, don't 'detract' from this truth by ridicule, it weakens your true points. The Scripture says 22let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. (Heb 10) So, I'm now stirring you... fight falsehood with truth, but make sure it is real truth and not just nationalistic pride. The same goes for we Aussies. Mendekatilah Tuhan, hampirilah anugerahNya, peluklah kebenaran yang ada dalam Tuhan Yesus, jadilah dibanjiri dengan kasihNya. Biarlah Kasih Dia mengawal hidupmu seratus peratus. Salam Posted by BOAZ_David, Sunday, 2 April 2006 9:24:49 AM
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"over a handful of asylum seekers who, if they really needed asylum, could have hopped the border into East Timor" Wow, Leigh, what a solid grasp of Indonesian geography you have!
I can only reiterate, Indonesia's occupation of West Papua is brutal, bloody and illegal. The region has no lingusitic, ethnic or cultural ties with Indonesia. Indonesia's occupation is an example of neocolonialism, plain and simple. Posted by Viking, Sunday, 2 April 2006 7:33:05 PM
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And lets not forget the role the ACTU played in the subjugation of West Papua. The Dutch were quite willing to continue to defend WP from indonesian incursions but they needed to source their supplies from Australia rather than transport all the way from Europe.
And by some hideous logic the ACTU but a ban on Dutch shipping and in so doing allowed a much more brutal Javanese colonialism to take over from Dutch colonialism. If the ACTU had not intervened then there would certainly now be an independent nation of West Papua. The Dutch have a record of preparing their former dependent colonies for independence and creating viable nations like Surinam. Can't say the same about the Javanese, can we? Posted by Perseus, Sunday, 2 April 2006 10:01:43 PM
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Perseus;
It is more appropriate to equate the ousting of the Dutch from 'Indonesia' with the Vietnamese resistance to their French Colonialists, seeking to resume their colonial rule after deserting the population to the mercy of the advancing Japanese. The Soekarno Government was much more benign than the violent Military Terror that was unleashed to impose the Suharto regime which implemented expansionist annexation of it's neighbours to satisfy the political requirements of the USA during the cold war.(see Henry Kissingers comments recently released in FOI ) I recommend reading Rupert Lockwoods authoritative "Black Armada" to obtain an accurate record of events as they unfolded. first published by the Australasian Book Society in 1975 ISBN 9 09916 68 3 Southwood Press Posted by maracas, Sunday, 2 April 2006 10:46:17 PM
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@maracas:
LOL, your post is full of crap. Papua will always be Indonesian, regardless of what Australians think. East Timor was deliberately let go by President Habibie who views the worthless piece of real estate as endless cesspit of subsidies during time of economic crisis. Indonesia is better-off without East Timor, while East Timor is now the poorest country in the world where one out of ten babies died at birth, 60% of the population lives in poverty, and education has so deteriorated that only 50% of the population can read. @BOAZ_David: Indeed Australia has no power nor any influence whatsoever in Asia-Pacific affairs. Australia is at best marginally noticed as stooge of USA. Anzus might be useful in the unlikely event anybody bothered to invade Australia, but if you think US is going to support Australia in invading other countries, particularly Indonesia, you have got to be joking. US views Indonesia as important ally in the fight against terrorism, as we are based according to secular Pancasila nationalism. US also knew since it failed in its occupation of Iraq, a much smaller and less complex country, it is clear US has no capability to occupy Indonesia. http://washingtontimes.com/world/20060313-102838-5694r.htm Australia is only capable of copying whatever US policy-of-the-day is, it has no power to decide its own foreign policy. You might be white, but you are an insignificant white country. BTW, I am surprised how a foreign man of God go out of his way to meddle in our affairs over some Indonesians settling in another part of Indonesia, just because of their religion. I think such religious intolerance would only push Muslims to the breast of fanatics like OBL. You know you're better than that. Posted by Proud to be Indonesian, Monday, 3 April 2006 8:13:26 AM
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That doesn't say very much for your humanity..Of course you are not representative of the millions of the population but rather another right wing extremist fanatic with delusions of grandeur.
Indonesia is not an example of a flourishing democracy when it has to resort to military force against their own citizens.
Just as Soeharto was forced from power, so too will be the present corrupt regime. You can give credit to the force of nature; (the Tsunami) which crushed the Acehnese separatist movement temporarily. Not the Indonesian Military which moved in after the disaster to withold aid from the survivors to bring them to their knees...Dont kid yourself that the flame of independence was extinguished permanently.
Hopefully, the International Community will bring about change for the long suffering West Papuans who became 'indonesian' through a shameful deception of the people who never have been anything other that West Papuan when they continue to raise the Morning Star flag.
You must be dreaming if you think for a moment that Indonesian TNI is militarily powerful...They have only subdued defenceless women, children and old people....Villagers armed with Bows and Arrows. Their efforts in East Timor against a 'handful of guerillas' could not extinguish the East Timorese fight for Independence and the cowardly killings and destruction of property only proceeded until Australian Troops landed when the TNI and their militias fled across the border like the craven cowards they were.
If you wish to express some pride in being Indonesian, show some humility and humanity instead of beating your breast and spouting empty rhetoric.