Well it would appear that there is some kind of consensus here, although I would like to point out that it is a MINORITY of feminists who hold back equality for men and women in family care. True feminists want equality for both sexes.

However, the bottom line is this: women are not equally represented in the upper levels of power from politics to business. Even in education where I hear alot of whinging about the 'feminisation' of teaching, the vast bulk of school principals are still men.

The question has to be, why are men often discriminated against in anything to do with child care, given that the highest postions are still primarily held by men?

BTW

Seeker

if you are going to quote me, it is courteous to acknowledge that you are using my quote.

Seeker

And furthermore I am aware of the irony in my statement - I frequently use irony in many of my posts here.

However I have not made out women to be any more viruous than men as you well know. Yet you continue to have a problem acknowledging any good in women. I have pointed this out to you before. Not all women are violent, nor are all men violent.

You are not helping if you continue to alienate those who may agree with some of your views just because like me they are female. I have repeatedly tried to communicate with you and all I receive is thinly veiled hositility on the rare occasion you even respond to my posts.

It is clear that we have both been hurt badly by the other sex. However, I don't blame ALL men for what has happened to me. Your posts always cast women in a negative light.

I feel sorry for you.

Damned silly typos on my part

(must be my male brain acting badly ;-) )

Neither gender has a monopoly on child rearing skills and abilities, or on tenderness. Apart from breastfeeding there is nothing that a female cannot do better than a male in raising a child

should have read

Neither gender has a monopoly on child rearing skills and abilities, or on tenderness. Apart from breastfeeding there is nothing that a female can do better than a male in raising a child

But I think that everyone got the point anyway.

Scout,

You must also acknowledge our own entitlement to irony without the cynical offers of sympathy.

Your commentary on equality, invariably attempts to raise the status of women through affirmative action, while supporting laws that cut down men. That is not my idea of equality. Women are perfectly capable in today’s western society such as ours, of achievement and success in their own right. What have physical size or muscle density got to do with fish or bicycles? These are stupid ideas you continue to perpetuate as valid reasons for men somehow being responsible for supporting and even compensating women for their self-imposed unequalness. Even worse, men somehow deserve to have their children taken away from them because powerful men exist elsewhere in society. I seriously doubt that sort of irony is intentional.

If you were truly gender neutral as you claim, you would see family law reform as a precursor to equality, rather than the reverse. Equal reproductive rights and financial responsibility would make us equal. Not those socialist/feminist equalisation schemes you tend to favour.

I went down to the local Police Station to obtain a keypass application for my son. While there I noticed a prominently displayed pamphlet.. (though it bore more resemblance to a 'tract')

The title was "NEVER believe HIS violence is YOUR fault"

Now..if that doesn't raise about a 100 questions in many minds I don't know what will. Without stating my own reaction to this, I'd value others opinions on it first.

( A lady at Bible study 2night totally agreed with that title)

Scout:

1/ Just another example of your patronising attitude to me.
2/ Pity you don't try to get along with non-christians, such as, for example, Muslims?

3/ Such a pity you find independent women unattractive

I won't dignify 1 or 2 with a response.

3.... you misunderstand. I also feel you don't 'get' the idea of marraige. But then..I speak from a 'Godbotherer' perspective, so what would I know.
"and the 2.....shall become ONE" there is no independance for either a MAN or a WOMAN in marraige.. they are interconnected at every level. They can do things individually, but the day they start to think they are 'separate and unconnected' is.. in my humble opinion the day the marraige starts to crumble. Hmmm.. lets see, I've been married to one girl for nearly 30 yrs... again..what would I know.

You keep harping on me believing 'she must seek guidance' I think you are imposing your harsh, literalist, inflexible and legalistic mind set to my words. Just for the record, when it comes to some areas of life, a man must accept guidance from a woman. Its a team effort. But this does not change a mans fundamental responsibility of leadership in a family. Thats where I stand.

Boaz_David.

Leadership?

How about the male showing leadership in sacrifice, in humility, in generosity of spirit?

Of leading by example, not in a dominant way, but by showing the way?

Leadership in self control, sobriety, granting honour to others in the family before himself? Leading in self-discipline. Leading in love, without expecting love in return. Receiving respect when he has earned respect, not demanding respect.

Being there to pick up the pieces, with forgiveness, when something goes wrong. Indeed leading in turning the other cheek.

Leading in listening, and in controlling his own tongue. Finding ways to influence members of his family in the ways of grace, peace, security and prosperity.

Leading in showing the value of knowledge and self knowledge. Spending time in his own wilderness of the soul before he seeks to lead others.

This is how I see leadership in the family, of being slow to anger and quick to praise. To correct with gentleness but firmness, after a deep and searching examination of the man's own soul and spirit.

Leading with inner strength of masculinity, not in external show.

Yes, leadership,

but I don't think that is how you see it.