"Just imagine being shut in a box with no light and no sound all on your own for eternity. Terrifying ,right?
That is what religion is about, a hereafter ,and there is a place for all who follow Christ"

Yup Dobba, that is what religions are all about. Using fear to scare the heebeejeebies into people and then offering a solution, where those who claim to know that solution, have power over you. As they say, for every fool that dies, another 10 are born :)

Religions, as are being sold to the consumer, would have to be the biggest con trick ever invented. Amazingly they never have to deliver or provide evidence for their claims either.

Just scare the hell out of people, then offer them hope and a solution. Voila, a brilliant business and control model is born!

If you want to understand the world, just look at nature. The laws are there for all to see. In nature, deception is common to take advantage of the gullible. Clearly on this thread, there is no shortage of gullible people...

You are pretty well spot on, MikeM. Looks like you have good insight into Middle East history. You appear like a keen scholar, in fact.

Just been reading a report about Harold Pinter who won the Nobel Prize in Literature in 2005. Also before that he had won he Shakespear Prize, the European Prize for Literature, the Pirandello Prize at Palermo, the David Cohen British Prize for Literature, Also won the French Moliers D'Honour for lifetime literature achievement, and in 1999 was made a Companion of Literature by the Royal Society of Literature. Also has received Honorary Degrees from 14 universities.

We might say that Harold Pinter's view of our present global commandeers is not very nice. He says that in these days of so-called advanced Enlightenemnt, our present unipolarists, the Americans, and probably those who follow them, are interested not in truth but in power, and the maintainance of that power. Further, to maintain that power, it is essential to use evasive tactics, as well as to tell untruths, so that the ordinary people remain in ignorance. It reminds us very much of a quote by Ralston Saul of Canada, about it being essential to dumb down a questioning public. Certainly both the Murdoch and Packer media have a strong hand in 'not to reason why' in Australia.

Finally, talking about suicide bombing, Mike, I guess you already know that the record for suicide bombers giving their lives is held by the Tamil Tigers. Somewhere between four and five hundred. The most interesting one, of course, was performed by a young Tamil girl, who blew up herself and Rajiv Gandhi, Mrs Gandhi's son, who had foolishly landed an Indian military force in Norhern Sri-Lanka to quell down the original Tamil Tiger Revolt. Stupidly foolish because the Tamil Tigers are blood cousins of the Tamils of India.

Also talking about Vestal Virgins, Mike, we never hear what the suicide bomber females expect to be granted in heaven?

Regards, George C, WA - Bushbred

bushbred wrote, "[Pinter] says that in these days of so-called advanced Enlightenemnt, our present unipolarists, the Americans, and probably those who follow them, are interested not in truth but in power, and the maintainance of that power..."

The classic statement of the Bush administration position was in Ron Suskind's New York Times Magazine feature, "Without a Doubt", http://www.cs.umass.edu/~immerman/play/opinion05/WithoutADoubt.html

QUOTE
In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn't like about Bush's former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend -- but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.

The aide said that guys like me were ''in what we call the reality-based community,'' which he defined as people who ''believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''
END QUOTE

Good point about the Tamil Tigers. Notably the Tamil Tigers are mainly Hindu and the similarly lethal Nepalese terrorists are Maoist communists.

Yabby, interesting perspective about
1/ scaring people
2/ offering a solution
3/ gaining power over them.

Sounds like "The Family", or Maharaj Ji with his personal 747, or.. perhaps even Benny Hinz ? David Koresh, or Jim Jones or even the Catholic Church in some ways, (No offense Catholic friends please) and many cult figures, but concerning Jesus, Messiah and Lord ? nope.. can't recognize Him there.

I do see some truth in points 1 & 2 but that is the reality of fallen humanity, we can argue the toss on those, but the last one..3/ "Gaining power" that's the point of departure from Christ.

"If anyone among you would be first, he must become servant of all"

yep..sounds like a real power trip to me :)

Mike
I would not dispute the accuracy of your quotes to be honest. They seem in harmony with the fallen nature of humans who DO live just for power and empire.(Can you show me a nation/tribe/race which has not ?) But its more than that. Unfortunately, like feminism, Marxism this-ism that-ism there is never any stopping at 'equality' or Victory. It always goes further, once power is gained, it has to be held, and that requires the reducing of power of enemies (forcing tribute on conquered tribes/classes) and enhancing ones own.

What I dispute is as follows:

1/ That some body like the UN or some socialist Utopia is going to solve it.

2/ That there are humans who would be 'different' once in power.

As Jesus said "The jugement you give, is the judgement you will get"

When we cry out against the USA etc, we are really crying out against ourselves.

The foundational problem is us. Our hearts, our stubborn wills, and our selfish minds. If history has taught us anything, it has taught us this.

"I tell you the truth, you must be born again" (Jesus)

ARJAY we have common ground in the area of common sense re human behavior, we just have different solutions :) Don't take my 'mud slinging' jibe as too serious..was just making a general point.

Boaz-David, I think you are in a weak position to pontificate on this site about those who you deem to be 'spritually dead'. Your preachings are hollow. You cannot explain why you simultaneously believe that only true Christians will be received into heaven while being unable to explain the fate of the 'blameless non-believers', as was exposed on another thread last week. You are some kind of evangelist, it seems. Why don't you have the courage of your convictions and undertake a mission to convert the Muslims of Iraq and Afghanistan? Who knows, you might save a few souls even if it results in you meeting your maker rather earlier than you had planned. Preaching to us here on this site reaches only the converted and the committedly unconverted.

Well the christians have turned this into a muslim bashing thread again, in their effort to take the heat of their own reality.

The massive problem we face is the intolerance of all religion towards each other and those that wish to live a life in peace and harmony. Rather than denial, violence and debauchery. Its all religion that suffers from intolerance, there are no exceptions. Its believe or go down under a religious barrage of verbal diarrhea, followed by threats of damnation, followed by violent confrontation.

The religious have but one course to sail, thats domination at all costs, no tolerance in that, no caring, no peace, no love. Just scripture, threats, then, we all know whats next, we see it all over the world today and throughout history.