Yes, and it must be very stressful living in a paranoid world where you believe everyone (or should I say, just Muslims) lies through their front teeth, and actually mean the opposite of what they say. May Gods Face shine upon you, as an old Jewish friend of mine used to say.

Scout: Islam has always had the principle of abortion enshrined within its concept of law, even from the earliest times. Most traditional schools of law have allowed it up until at least the 100-day period, and even later if the mothers life or health is in danger. I am actually pro-abortion and pro-contraception, but the same cannot be said for everyone, of course! This is due to various differences within the Islamic tradition itself, including how culture is involved in the expression of Islam.

Examples of the effects of shari'ah are the pre-cursers shari'ah laws introduced into Victoria's laws where [1] religious vilification laws have closed religious debate and [2] the exclusive use of Muslim women of Public swimming pools. The latter has now been introduced in the Villawood pool in Sydney.

Because of this attitude Muslims have toward women breeds in Muslim males that any females swimming in public places are sexually and morally loose and fair game to rape or have sex with. ie. the backless, strapless clad are exciting Muslim males to rape.

The Cronulla riots were triggered off because this became a problem near the showers on Cronulla beach by muslim males acosting young girls. The fact is they would not dare accost a muslim girl observing virginity according to shari'ah, but viewed non-muslim girls as sexually loose. This is evidence that the two attitudes toward woman cannot co-exist. Rape by Muslim males in Western countries is at epedimic proportions. The attitudes of males attending the Lakemba mosque in Sydney is a prime example that women are lesser beings. Many have several wives under shari'ah [one registered under Australian law] or concubines [defacto] by whom they have children.

It is pointless observing comparative laws on paper, it is more important on how they are applied in reality. Note how women are treated in Muslim countries where shari'ah is used when a woman is accused of fornication or adultery.

The two attitudes toward woman cannot co-exist as it is a disadvantage to a non-muslim woman.

Fellow_Human,

You wrote: "Radical Islamists...ignore... spirituality of Islamic teachings..."

SPIRITUALITY??

The Talibans know best. Islam is a CARNAL religion, NOT spiritual AT ALL.

Look at those Islamic pillars (ya, and think of 5 physical construction objects). They are ALL earthy qualities (or should I say quantities).

Pillar_1..Faith...Oneness of God...Muhammad..-> Blind faith
Pillar_2..daily prayers..-> Physical activity
Pillar_3..almsgiving.. -> Physical activity
Pillar_4..fasting..-> Physical activity
Pillar_5..pilgrimage..-> Physical activity

What's spiritual about those Islam pillars?

Worst, none will guarantee a place in paradise. There's always another distraction and exception somewhere in Qu'ran.

Mohammed said, "Whoever guarantees me (the chastity of) what is between his legs (i.e. his private parts), and what is between his jaws (i.e., his tongue), I guarantee him Paradise." (Sahih Bukhari 8.799)

Honestly, if Mohammed is here today, whispering those words in your ears, would you really believe him?

In fact in Islam, a Muslim is NEVER assured of paradise. The ONLY 100% quarantee to paradise is...(drum beats please).....

- TO DIE FOR ISLAM.

Once you're dead, you're already in paradise. Therefore there can be no more earthly requirements to fullfill, no more uncertainty and distraction. As a martyr, you are now ready to consummate virgins offered to you.

But really?

Unfortunately, in Islam, even paradise is actually quite a physical place.

I quote from a study: "In the Qur'an (and the Hadith), Paradise is a very physical place with many physical delights, including food, shade and fair maidens, all of which evoke many fond imageries to the Arab living in the harsh desert, and influenced many a Muslim to fight for Islam. Many Muslims have been adamant about the physical pleasures of Paradise."

Also: "In Islam, man and women remain married in Paradise. Man also have the privilege of many fair maidens, but there is no mention of an analogous reward for women."

Spirituality?? Is this a joke?
.

Aziliz,

Sorry, I have to say your BD debate is a dog's breakfast, meaningless point-scoring, totally unfocused.

Also, I've never regarded Paul's teachings as important. Paul was just another man. I won't waste time reading into details of his teachings. Cheers...

AZ - "The American Civil Liberties Union is taking Rumsfeld et al to court to sue him for torture and abuse-Rumsfeld is claiming that government officials are immune from prosecution" this is actually the biggest positive argument for democracy, and hopefully it will be taken as such in the middle east. What other system allows it top officials to be charged and tried? And the president can be charged in the senate, which will no doubt happen if Rumsfeld et al are found guilty.

FH - I have never really been that worried about the tiny numbers of muslims in this country and or there beliefs about shariah. b4 everyone accosts me on this, I would point out that it is our system that produces moderate islam, which will no doubt lead to no islam at all in future generations. I understand what you are saying with regards to muslims not addressing/understanding the historical use of the laws and the ideas behind them, after all it is clear not many christians understand anything about the history and interpretation of their holy book. I do not accept that moderate islam is the majority of Islam though. Surely you would agree that it is nominal muslims who are in the majority, ie, those who understand little at all about their faith, and probably cannot read arabic, so have no idea what is in the Qoran (these are found outside arab countries and iran; ie indonesia). The next block would definitely be the radical/fundamentalist groups who are all in arab countries (salafist, wahabi etc). Lastly is your own group of moderates, who are attested in all the books I have read on the subject to be a tiny fragment (thousands).

about my financial questions, do you accept that large proportions of the money made in australia each year are from borrowed funds? If not then I can see why you are haveing trouble understanding me. If muslims cannot borrow, and make money of the borrowed money, then they will fall behind economically. Do you accept this?

I have moved from ranting to dog's breakfast-I expected nothing less (or should I say more?) from you GZ.

I think your post a dog's breakfast too ;)

1.No definition of what you think spirituality is.

2.Calling practices nonspiritual that are considered spiritual when christians do it.

3.No justification/defence of why you think there is no spiritual dimension to the so-called 'physical activities'

4.No christian spiritual practices to clarify your position.

And the christian guarantee of going to heaven no matter how awful you are as long as you believe in christ really makes heaven an awful place. You think that is an advantage--nuts. When you are up their with all the christian serial murderers, rapists and torturers just know that I'm relieved I'm not.

Fide Mae-ah, actually the case is being tried in Germany because it couldn't be brought to justice in America. I guess that's still a democracy but unfortunately Australia prefers to model itself on the US. Odds on the US refuses to acknowledge the power of the court and that will be the end of it--just like they do with everything else. So much for American democracy. As America's little lap dog we are guilty by association.

aziliz:I'm full of hate and possibly mental - have you been reading my mail? All I did was to copy what I had read on the net about pagan islam. By the way you did not refute what I said I notice you just attacked the messenger - well done!
its not easy being: You really got to the nub of what I wrote, clever you eh? You must be a well educated person. Just what did you high-light oh! yes spelling errors wasn't it? Again well done and keep up the good work of in-depth criticism. numbat