Well said R0bert! Hear! Hear!

I doffs me hat. Don't have a hat - but that won't stop me from a spot of impromptu doffing LOL.

May there be a special place in that no-existent hell I don't believe in for all the world's manipulators - they deserve each other.

Sarah10 and Hamlet - I sincerely hope life improves for both of you. I know it really doesn't help to say that it is mostly the good people who get burned but that seems to be the way of things. For myself I have managed to retain my integrity and dignity and sometimes thats about all we can hope for.

No R0bert you were not wrong on any aspect you listed. As it turns out I was wrong in thinking you were overreacting.

While the balance achieved with each of your posts is admirable, it is not something I particularly aspire to. This is no way meant as detraction from your good work here, but as you may have noticed I don’t seriously attempt debate – rather, I tend to focus on worst case scenarios when making my generally stand-alone comments, then rarely return to defend them. They are never an attempt to show my overall personal balance. No apologies there.

As for hate, I hate one woman only, but more so, the system that supports her. This system involuntarily includes myself, which BTW is sustained over many years and is my greatest source of frustration. While I know she is not alone, her cohort does not a majority make. My comments relate to her group and to systems that support such rampant abuses. I don’t defend similarly abusive men, but then again, don’t see any systems in place to actively support such undesirable behaviour from men, so see no need to argue there. Neither do I see the need to say something specifically positive about the majority of good women (and men) out there – although inadvertently I probably do.

Scared and confounded? Possibly. Not so much by women, but by blatantly discriminative laws that make mockery of any notions of gender equality people may still cling to.

Scout, thank you for your wishes, but actually I view my life quite favourably. I cannot remember ever being hungry, I have always had a roof over my head, never been seriously unemployed and never wanted for medical treatment when it has been required.

I have some wonderful friends, most of whom are women. I work with a great bunch of people, women, men etc of all sorts of inclinations.

Most of my home life is good, it is only poor maybe 20% of the time and really difficult about 3% of the time, but I chose to stay.

I recognise that many of my wife's problems are due to the sexual, physical and emotional abuse inflicted on her by her father, with the cooperation and unspoken agreement of her mother, so that I can see the abuse that both genders are capable of inflicting on their children. In one way Sarah10 is correct, but she has forgotten the power of women in most relationships.

Sarah10 talks about things being worse now, I would disagree: most men do not now take sex in marriage as a right: it wasn't that long ago that legally rape was impossible in marriage. It was also not that long ago that bad marriages were much more difficult to get out of than they are now. Domestic violence is now seen as a crime, for a long while the authorities did not take it seriously.

To me it seems that all people tend to see only what they think that they have lost, and not what has actually been gained, and what further gains are just around the corner.

Seeker, quite an open and reflective post. Attempts at balance for me are a mix of my own values and a pragmatic belief that I'm more likely to achieve results by showing balance. More likely to get dialog with those who are willing to see "the other side" who don't currently share my views. It's my perception that many people who have not been through the system have to some extent bought into the idea that men are just getting what they deserve (corrupt DV stats, outright lies about child abuse, horror stories shared amongst women about the cases where men do the wrong thing etc). I'm hoping to show the other side of that situation. Fida mae made a really good comment recently about being pushed to a more radical position by debate than she might have come to herself http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=4211#34371 - something we all need to be aware of and which I suspect would be less of an issue with more attempts at balance. Thanks for the response.

Hamlet, great post and stuff that is worthwhile for us all to keep in mind.

Scout, thanks for the applause. Have a great weekend.

Cheers
R0bert