LittleAgreeableBuddy

Thank you for your last two posts. Brilliant stuff - and of course, accurate.

Scout

Agree wholeheartedly with yours. Thank you.

Never to be released is surely much more painful than death.

Regards
Kay

Hi all

ZORRO (response continuation to your post 8:55:28 AM 15/3/06)

You said, as a final comment, & I quote exactly: "So - answer this one instead. What gives you the right to impose your misguided morality on others"

My response:
1. I suspect your comment is a question - there's no "question-mark".
2. "Right"? I have the same Common Law right as anyone else in Australia - provided I don't 'negatively' affect fellow-citizens. That's called responsibility.
3. "Impose"? That's your word - not mine.
4. "Misguided"? Most sane, rational, well-educated & well-informed 'experts' dealing in legislative, law-enforcement, judicial procedures & mental health matters recognise the futility of "capital punishment" - I continually communicate with such.
5. "Morality"? I certainly hope so!
6. "Upon others"? You are free to your own opinions & to express them - politely. But opinions are only that opinions. They often have little reality to facts. Facts are deduced from scientific experimentation, or analysed, collated statistics. They are unemotional - unlike the rantings of some emotional individuals who understand not. Those individuals are often called "armchair experts".
(16/3/06)

Scout (post 7:50:55 AM 16.3.06)

I think I understand you a whole lot more since you 'opened up' to everyone. You, too, have suffered - haven't we all. But it's how we respond that matters.

You sound like a great lady!

Sorry that I'd exceeded my 24-hour limitation - my response has been delayed. But here it is ...

1. ".. deserve death for .."
Do they? I know that the OT calls for "an eye for an eye". There are also parts of the NT which may alude to it?! Many non-Christian-thinking people agree with execution.

But what does Christ say in "the Beatitudes"? Moreover, the taking of another life doesn't really satisfy the 2nd-generation aggrieved - in the long-run.

4000-years of history of exesutions hasn't prevented murder. Once it was done in public. That solved nothing.

There are few statistics that suggest the crime rate is reduced by capital punishment - to the contrary, where it's used violence isn't diminished. ...

... (t.b.c.)

Cheers all

Hi again

(cont)
2. ".. possibility of innocence .."
Some figures suggest that errant judgements are as high as 20% - that's 1:5!

DNA is errant 10%+. Wow!

Read http://abcasiapacific.com/englishbites/stories/s541019.htm

I met his wife Helen. What an amazing man!

3. "The Executioner .."
Pretty 'cold', uncaring individual. Those who use "lethal injection" would be the most blessed of them all.

A dreadful job - unless you're a sadist.

4. "How does the relatively painless death of the convict ..?"
It doesn't! Just read Ken MARSLEW's story - an amazing change of heart.

5. "Being imprisoned for life, never to .."
That's he least of their worries in prison. What a depressing, morbid institution - full of psychotic, drug induced, semi-literate, argumentative, illogical, aggressive co-inhabitants.

Then the inmates have to deal with angry wardens - many of whom are failed police officers. Few like their job. However, some are great people. By visiting gaols I've gotten to know some of them. Some are outstanding human-beings.

6. "People like Ivan Milat should never be released."
He won't be - unless they find unsurmountable evidrence to over-turn the conviction.

I think that police got that one 100% right - I met part of his family - I shot "target pistol" - & know 2 of the investigating Policemen. Tim Priest was one of them.

7. "I am sorry to hear about .."
Thank you, but you don't owe me any apology. Your empathy (not sympathy), & a desire to change our whole "law enforcement" principle will be the best legacy that we can leave in honour of my mother.

In NSW, Police Commissioner Ken MORONEY needs our support; DCS Commissioner Ron WOODHAM needs our encouragement to make the necessary changes that will reduce the recidivism; our politicians need to be made more accountable for their decisions; government bureaucrats need to listen more to the 'employees' & aggrieved rather than "bleeding-hearts" & ill-nformed academics; we need to be willing to embrace change.
(16/3/06)

Cheers all

Hi all

kalweb (post 7:55:13 PM 16/3/06)

I try to be objective, factual & informed/informative. It isn't easy - we're humans.

Ironically, I don't see punishment the way most people see it. I don't see it in the context of retribution, instilling hurt or harm. I focus more on the fact that the offender needs to be separated from society for society's safety.

A serious crime demands a long sentence because of its callousness - the individual's belief-systems & life-experiences are in conflict with society's 'norms' & therefore can't be quickly changed.

I may have stated it elsewhere? But I believe that remorseful killers take at least 10-years before they "come to terms" with their crime. Some never do. However, if they are incarcerated, society is protected, &, when/if society ever reaches a true rehabilitation-mentality, there will be an increasing number of remorseful offenders who won't re-offend.

That reversal of repetitive criminality & a genuine reduction in crime may just 'easy the burden' of those who are the real & surviving "victims of crime" - the close relatives. That's called "Restorative Justice" - less recidivism; 'peace' for the aggrieved; safety for society.
(17/3/06)

ALL:
Those interested might like to look up the following:
http://abcasiapacific.com/englishbites/stories/s541019.htm
http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/stories/803.asp
http://www.enoughisenough.org.au/about/ from where you can navigate through much of what "Enough Is Enough" does, & the associated links to other cases.

Cheers & good wishes to you all ... always

Hello LAB

I agree wholeheartedly with you about the need to remove an offender from society and the possibility of rehabilitation in some cases.

I find criminals at the level of Hitler and Pol Pot as deserving forfeiture of their lives, but also believe that there is no one among us who has the right to perform the execution. I arrive at this from a philosophical POV - not from any particular religion.

Also agree that the nature of the crime should determine the length of sentence, therefore the likes of mass murderers should never be released, being the maximum sentence.

Down to no sentence at all if one has killed in self defence.

BTW LAB, I am very aware of the day to day difficulties of living in a prison. Not from personal experience, thank goodness, but because I am well read, informed and not at all stupid. In fact I have a cousin who is a prison officer - something I could never countenance for myself, being too much of a softie.

In summary - vengeance in the form of capital punishment does not achieve anything. It does not bring back the victims, nor does it change the crime. It is often a way out for an offender (Hitler suicided). Meeting cruelty with more cruelty will never solve anything.

People can change if they want, often they come from backgrounds where violence is the only way they know of settling problems and they can learn that there are other ways of achieving what they want without harming others.