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The Forum > Article Comments > The punitive obsession > Comments

The punitive obsession : Comments

By Ken Macnab, published 28/2/2006

In tackling crime and violence the law and order bandwagon unthinkingly fosters a culture of more violence.

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Politicians these days, especially in Australia, are followers not leaders. To look at alternatives to the "tough on crime" approach requires guts and creativity, which are notably lacking in the Coalition and the ALP. All they care about is getting re-elected.

So what we have are politicians pandering to the fears of the community. Nobody ever says, "Stop, let's see if this is really working. If it is, let's continue, if it's not, let's try something different". Clearly it is not working. The Emperor has no clothes, but none of our politicians are willing to point this out. And if they did, they'd be ridiculed by their opponents and the shock jocks and the right wing attack dogs.
Posted by AMSADL, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 9:51:49 AM
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You hang around with dogs you get fleas, inside Gaol and out.

Dont blame the states or the system on the individual decisions each person made when they reoffended.

Gaol provides many opportunities for those genuinely wanting to change their life. There are scum there, but ultimately that individual has responsibility for their own actions.

Reoffending can be a result of being placed back in the same environment which the person offended in the first place, and this is the most common reason. Dont blame a system, just like at school some kids do well, others dont. Its just that inside, most dont want to improve, just like in their own lives outside of Gaol.

People can be harsh when they are on the outside of the situation, and make assumptions. We cant make these people rhode scholars, many are missing something in the head and is the reason they are inside in the first place. Every society has these people in them, no matter what we did to help them, they could not improve themselves.

I think they have it easy inside and if in the 'time out' they have inside they dont get to think about things, set new goals, have regrets and fears and learn valuable lessons, they were not rehabilitation material in the first place.

For the record I know many people who have not re-offended after Gaol, and plenty of morons who do. They are 2 distinct groups and you can pick both of them out a mile away.

It is called 'life nouse' and these people have none. We must deal with it and realise we cant help everyone, it helps us more if we help those who want to help themselves.
Posted by Realist, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 10:12:13 AM
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While an effort must be made to rehabilitate prisoners, it is absolutely essential that those offenders who pose a threat to others should be imprisoned. This is not only a matter of practical necessity, it also represents justice to society and to the offender.

Where the current system fails in the most absurd and unnecessary way is in the imprisoning of people, sometimes for long periods, who pose no threat whatsoever. Prominent victims of this policy in recent years have included Brian Burke, Pauline Hanson (who was not even guilty), Andrew Theophanous and Rene Rivkin. The offences in these cases involved an abuse of position for personal gain; the punishment should include a ban from holding a responsible position (so the offence cannot be repeated), heavy fines and community service (to provide restitution to society)
Posted by GeorgeT, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 10:13:02 AM
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“His death sentence was mandatory, illustrating the inherent injustice of all mandatory sentencing.”

How does mandatory sentencing illustrate its own ‘injustice’? And what has Phillip Ruddock’s description of capital punishment as barbaric have to do with his stand on David Hicks, who is still alive?

The fact that an Australian feels the need lecture other Australians on capital punishment when Australia does not have capital punishment is bad enough, but this character doesn’t want people jailed either.

What does he want? People to be allowed to do anything they want to? How about the victims of these creeps, Mr. McNab? And, the best way for aborigines to stay out of jail is the same as it is for others: stop committing crimes.
Posted by Leigh, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 10:21:53 AM
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Dr Ken Macnab's 'Time Machine' made the obligatory visit to December 2005 but ran out of petrol, as is the case with most of our clerisy who undertake that journey. Dr Macnab, the alleged 'racial' violence at Cronulla owes its genesis to what? You seem keen on dissecting issues so please inform the debate.

Dr Macnab's piece does throw up some interesting figures. He says that in NSW the prison population has increased by 7%. Traditional Australians are dying out and we are replacing them with migrants. So, our prisons are filling up with blue-rinsed 70-year-old criminals or we are importing criminals.

Dr Macnab correctly sounds a tocsin with regard to the high rate of recidivism. We must find better ways to manage our prisons and prisoners. One solution might be to build the next prison 100k north of Broken Hill and offer the inmates very little in the way of amenities with the message "If you don't like it, don't come back". A massive effort should be put into rehabilitation with skills and education replacing weight lifting and the Foxtel Gold package.

A more drastic method might be to send our prisoners to Manus Island and release them.
Posted by Sage, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 11:07:29 AM
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Hi all

To: Dr Ken MACNAB

Hi Ken. Well written & 'balanced'.

I am "a victim of crime" - my mother was murdered in 1990 by a then 17-year old drug addict whose tragic background gives reason as to why he did what he did, but doesn't excuse his actions.

Whilst you have covered a wide range of elements to your posting, there are obviously some aspects which included in the limited space allowed. Whatsmore they would have 'opened' a Pandora's Box. Some of those subjects may include former NSW Attorney General, Frank WALKER's tampering with the Summary Offences Act. The 'system' also changed its treatment of juveniles. 'Liberal' thinking saw Police relegated to virtual status of "armed Security Officers" over-burdened "paper-shufflers". Taking the 'powers' away from parents, & parents seeking to be their children's "best friend" rather than being parents only exacerbates an already tenuous scenario. The issues are complex.

I have never been pro-capital punishment - though I believe in "truth in sentencing". Poor bench-marking by judiciary saw murder as a lesser crime than pack-rape for instance - I am not diminishing the seriousness of rape here either.

NSW Chief Justice Jim Spigelman had an inkling into the 'problem'. But, like most people within society, he appears to have failed to realise that the criminal commits a crime against a victim - not against the State. We often hear the expression: "The criminal owes a debt to the State." The loser in all this is the person against whom the crime has been committed. I don't benefit from my mum's killer spending 20-years in gaol without changing his attitudes & prospects. Nor can he bring my mum back to life - unlike if he stole my car. My only recompense is in knowing that the killer won't kill again, & if possible, I can have an input into changing his life to the better. Vengeance doesn't serve much purpose. ... (t.b.c)
Posted by LittleAgreeableBuddy, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 4:16:23 PM
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