Col: “Get your own life and stop trying experience it by trying to make decisions which will only effect the lives of others.’

You say you’re male - cannot become pregnant, therefore aren’t able to have an abortion…your advice should apply to yourself FIRST…

‘am I to assume you are blonde?’ No, Col, are you? Am I to assume you are intolerant of blondes?

I didn’t claim humidicribs were the ‘universal panacea’…re-read.

Humidicribs do enable survival of pre-term babies, which doesn’t suggest 6 week foetus’ will survive in a humidicrib…are you truly that obtuse?

Col: ‘No woman would carry almost to term and then abort at the last stages...’

Yes, there are women who will because of: 1. Sex of the child. 2. A discovered disability, 3. The end of a relationship, etc...Yes, some doctors will kill full-term babies…

The child is partly delivered, given a lethal injection through the ‘soft spot’ in the head and delivered later.

Other viable babies are dropped into buckets of water on delivery, removing ‘risk’ of survival.

Full-term babies delivered by at-risk mothers are normally viable - aborted or live, baby is still delivered. Procuring baby's death is irrelevant to saving mother. I’ve been there more than once and many times in a support role. The choice to deliver from an at-risk mother is to save her AND the baby, not to kill the baby … like abortion does.

Me: “I don’t bully easily. Stick to the facts and make a valid point. Only the weakest of minds resort to threats and bullying to cover the inadequacies in their argument.”

Col: ‘I will hold you to that but you even saying it is crass and hypocritical, yet lacking the sarcasm which you have started to deploy..’

I guess you would rather I ‘deploy’ such logical and civilized ‘debating skills’ as –

Col: ‘‘I will refute every pitiful excuse you make to justify your demand to interfere in the private lives of people, who really could not care if you were hit by a truck.’

If you dish it out, what goes ‘round, comes ‘round…

Meg1 “Full-term babies delivered by at-risk mothers are normally viable - aborted or live, baby is still delivered. Procuring baby's death is irrelevant to saving mother.”

“Other viable babies are dropped into buckets of water on delivery, removing ‘risk’ of survival.”

Those are emotive, hysterical and unsubstantiated claims made in desperation and with absence of reference to reason or where the true “reason” or circumstances have been purposely avoided, (like the ruse deployed by Philo on another thread, in the name of Pro-Life).

I am a father and I know the mother of my children. There was nothing unique or special about how she carried our children to term and then delivered them.

I know, from my experience as a father, that any woman who went through 7 -8 months and then sought an abortion would not do so lightly. You claim the babies are “normally viable”. I suggest you are lying to make a point.

The babies might be sub-viable and seriously defective.

“Viability” is a subjective measure Meg1.

From the historic content of your posts, you might consider those in a permanent vegetative state, existing because of a feeding tube and in need of 24/7 care (like Karen Ann Quinlan or Terri Schiavo) as “viable” but I do not.

Before you use the word, I would like you to qualify exactly what you mean by “viable”, to check if it is what I mean by “viable” too.

As for “If you dish it out, what goes ‘round, comes ‘round… “

Yep, whilst we are at it, anyone else for tennis ?

You need to improve your game plan in bigoted self-righteousness Meg1.

Your extensive use of repetition, mimicry and call-back are not the things an original mind needs to descend to. Unfortunately repetition, mimicry and call-back are the best you seem to be able to muster.

It is becoming boring to hear your same old diatribe of the banal but I guess, this is a free forum. Better we endure you than we all be censored by a power like, say the RCC

Col,

However ‘emotive’ you feel these facts are, they are facts. If you are unaware of that, I suggest you research your topic before you post any more spurious invective.

“Full-term babies delivered by AT-RISK mothers are normally viable - aborted or live, baby is still delivered. Procuring baby's death is irrelevant to saving mother...The choice to deliver from an at-risk mother is to save her AND the baby, not to kill the baby …like abortion does.”

Again, you are either deliberately mischievious with the truth, or really obtuse. Bcause a near-term mother is ill or at-risk for whatever reason, does not mean that the baby is not viable.

At-risk, near or full-term mothers mostly deliver viable and normal infants…if the mother is at-risk from excessive blood pressure or its complications (one of the most common near-term complications of pregnancy), there is no reason to expect the baby to be disabled or unhealthy.

You need to understand the whole topic, Col, not just rely on what may have happened to your wife 20-30 years ago.

Your comments about your wife, her pregnancy and your children previously, confirm what I have previously stated on one thread or another to you…when you regard human life as ‘of lesser value’ at any stage, you lessen the value of life at every stage…the results show clearly in your remarks.

I suggest that you use a dictionary more often if you are unsure of words, some of us don’t change the meanings to suit ourselves.

A viable unborn is medically regarded as a baby who is able to survive outside of the womb, with or without medical intervention as required. If the baby is born with terminal complications, i.e., irreparable heart damage, etc. then they are not viable…they will not survive.

Pretty obvious really…

’Your extensive use of repetition, mimicry and call-back are not the things an original mind needs to descend to. Unfortunately repetition, mimicry and call-back are the best you seem to be able to muster.’

Col, you can’t get through one sentence without falling victim to your own accusations…

Meg1 You still have not declared or qualified why a lady would endure 8 ½ months of pregnancy to abort without sound medical reasons or circumstances of the most severe kind. How about some real statistics, instead of just emotive claims.

The idea that someone would undergo 8 ½ months pregnancy only to abort for a whim is a deluded nonsense.

It is devoid of sense or reason.

Keep up your petty judgements of me. I did suggest elsewhere you go find a life instead of trying to live vicariously through others, I suggest it still.

You are busily attacking other people on other threads, I guess anyone with a brain and a desire to exercise independent will is at risk of attack from the religious narcissist.

I note your observation of “viable” made no reference to life-quality.

“when you regard human life as ‘of lesser value’ at any stage, you lessen the value of life at every stage…”

You confuse “existence” with “life” - I don't.

What point “existence” when it is bereft of “life”?
What point “existence” when freedom to exercise personal choice is not an option?

I will not accept “mere existence”, where my potential is held in check by someone else’s religious edicts.

I will fight for the sort of life which is only ever experienced by treating the individual as the pinnacle of the social order and not the equivalent of a drone worker in some human social ant colony (with the Pope at the top).

I will do everything I can to ensure that everyone else gets to make choices for themselves, to live with the consequences and to grow as far as they can toward being fulfilled humanbeings in the process.
Rather that being left as empty husks on a pew, looking for something to justify their "existence".


Oh btw I believe in the death penalty too and would pursue it against repeat drug dealing offenders.as well as the usual lowlifes who we indulge for the term of their natural life in cosy prison cells (TV included).

Col: ‘The idea that someone would undergo 8 ½ months pregnancy only to abort for a whim is a deluded nonsense.’

’It is devoid of sense or reason.’

Thread: 4167 COL: ’No woman would seek to endure 9 months of pregnancy only to abort on a murderous whim at the last moment. No one, in control of their senses (ie without diminished capacity or a howling loony), would seek to do it. Therefore, it is a complete and utter red herring, lacking in any credibility and devoid of all reason. No woman and her doctor would undertake such a course of action unless the circumstances were considered “extremely prejudicial” to her ongoing safety and as the only option.’

Col, you are sadly mistaken…there are women who will because of: 1. Sex of the child. 2. A discovered disability, 3. End of a relationship. Yes, some doctors will kill full-term babies…

The child is partly delivered, given a lethal injection through the ‘soft spot’ in the head and delivered normally…

Other viable babies are dropped into buckets of water on delivery, removing ‘risk’ of survival.

I've responded on other threads…which you like to use for ‘busily attacking other people’. Does that make you an anti-life narcissist?

RE: ‘trying to live vicariously through others’…

You'll never abort, so you’ve just argued against having a say yourself…what hypocrisy! Whose life are you trying to live? You repeatedly fall victim to your own accusations…again and again…

‘I note your observation of “viable” made no reference to life-quality.’

No, I’d hate to have anyone judge the quality of your life and find it wanting…you might see the consequences differently on a personal level.

RE: Existence and life – see above…is yours an existence then?…posting relentlessly on numerous threads, seemingly with little other purpose than to impose your views on others…

‘I will do everything I can to ensure that everyone else gets to make choices for themselves(EXCEPT CATHOLICS), to live with the consequences (EXCEPT YOU AND ANTI-LIFERS)and to grow as far as they can toward being fulfilled humanbeings(EXCEPT THE UNBORN) in the process.’

Meg1 “Col, you are sadly mistaken”

If I am “sadly mistaken”, then present the evidence to substantiate such a claim.

Until you can present some authoritive source and reliable statement regarding numbers of late term abortions ranked by reason, you are merely “pretending”.

“You'll never abort, so you’ve just argued against having a say yourself”

Being male I will never abort, true but I have said, maybe not on this particular thread, that the abortion issue is a flashpoint and “test” of how the state respects the individual and places individuals, who the state is elected to serve, above the authority of that State.

“No, I’d hate to have anyone judge the quality of your life and find it wanting”

That actually misses the point.
God is the only one whose judgement anyone should care about, unless they are in to gratuitously giving power over ourselves to other mere mortals.

The point is, without “Choice”, our lives are mere existence.

Life is about making decisions, not following the rest of the herd like one of the sheep (an analogy which another Pro-Lifer brought into these threads).

Our personal growth and development is stunted when someone else exercises control over us and makes decisions for us.

Sure we will make bad decisions or the wrong decision (I can think of some notable ones I have made in my life) but we only “grow” by dealing with the outcome of those decisions.

I have used counsellors and mentors during my life. I have found the best of them have been the ones who have asked the questions and unlike priests, not preached the answers. Those who place the onus on me to find the answer and then take responsibility for the decision and action, rather than try to decide the course is right and instruct me on how to follow it.

“EXCEPT CATHOLICS”. You are free to be as gullible as you want.
However, expect me to resist, with every fibre of my being, when you try to apply such manipulative control over the freewill of others