‘If we put as much effort into support and social assistance, there would probably be fewer abortions.’ Reason …’let’s not forget that the greater problem – a cold, unfair and greed obsessed society is the cause for some of this fight. I do not think there is yet reason to celebrate.’

Well said…Melinda agrees too…

Coyote, movie cameras are not permitted in the chamber or for use to take pictures of members, without their permission. This picture does not breach either rule.

Chainsmoker-‘an example of using the enemy's own tactics against them.’
The ‘enemy’s’ use of ‘tactics’, indicates that the point of the anti-life movement is not to help women, but implement a tactical plan to paint the abortion industry as acceptable and accepted…with no attempt at support for alternative choices.

With drug companies refusing to import RU 486 because of its controversy and its ‘limited potential for commercial use’ – it’s clear that abortionists are profiteers whose interest is in the almighty dollar, not the women or children involved.

‘people only develop and grow toward their full potential by exercising their own freewill and being responsible for the outcome.’…Col, you’re at it again, perpetual contradiction - killing the child is hardly ‘being responsible for the outcome’…is it?

Arjay, your comment could represent any group in society, biological children can also feel rejected and suicidal…I have adopted relatives in my extended family and none of these comments apply. Like any other situation, parents (biological or adoptive) have difficulties to address, if those concerns include tracing adoptive parents, my advice to friends in that circumstance has always been to support the child’s decision to find their parents, whatever the joy or sadness of the result…and be there for them afterwards to share either. You also mention that the ‘affluent’ parents removed family support from the child…that’s the really sad part…the child didn’t want abortion, she wanted to keep and rear her baby.

(Cont.)

Minuet these issues basically beg the question: shouldn’t ‘educated career women’ know what makes babies?…at some point you need to consider others (including the unborn) as more than an inconvenience and learn more about how your body works and treat it with respect. You can’t run from consequences forever.

Javaira, cheating democracy for who? There’s no democracy in RU 486 for the unborn and abortion is not legalized in Australia for convenience.

Robert Garvey Solicitor makes valid arguments but faith will not end as a result, trials and persecutions (including of the unborn) will turn the wheel full circle and society will be forced to see the evil that killing of the unborn is.

A statement by the father of the pregnant driver, killed in Tasmania on the weekend says it all…he commented that his daughter had just found she was pregnant with her first CHILD and that her husband had now lost ‘his family’.

No question of the humanity of the child in the eyes of either the father or the son-in-law…and the grief and sense of loss is evident in his words.

…so too the tragic loss of the 100,000 unborn deliberately killed each year in Australia.

RE: trade215 - some of your effluent could be recycled and sadly it often is - what a cop out for males...really, it isn't even a good argument. Please you women, don't make males take responsibility for anything and PLEEEASEEE don't refuse sex, just dispose of the results, whatever the consequences. That's empowering? You deal with it... Feminists would refuse to let men take the 'choice' away from them...those fairies are waiting at the bottom of your garden to pour your tea too.

Hellothere - RU 486 will not save ONE woman's life, that's undisputed...it will, however, kill some women and almost all the babies involved. Some babies will survive and be killed surgically later. Try to deal in facts, not fantasy...

Arjay – and what would our Catholic colleagues, who so oppose abortion be doing to curb the population explosion – nothing they are actually encouraging – which ranks as gross irresponsibility!.

Trade215 – you are perfectly right about vasectomy. After the birth of my second daughter I took the cut. One of the best decisions I have ever made.

Sex without expectation is a lot less stressful than worrying about whether one “hit the back of the net”.

hellothere – yes some people seem hell bent upon imposing their religious intolerance on the rest of us, I guess it is up to us to resist their interfering efforts.

Meg1 “killing the child is hardly ‘being responsible for the outcome’…is it?”

Only when you know the circumstances should you attempt to make such a “judgemental statement” and even then, it is still none of your business and not your responsibility to bear.

Simply declaring all abortion bad because of YOUR PERSONAL ignorance to other peoples circumstances is not a good basis for those other people to have to decide important matters in their lives.

I would further note, you are not offering to accept any responsibility, what so ever, for the outcome of the decision (no abortion) you would force on other people. In mine and most other people’s book, that is rank hypocrisy and the vain attempt of an interfering busybody to control things which are none of the busybody’s business.

Abortion 'debates' tend to expose the personal issue laden malice of both sides. Doesnt take much for personal attacks to fly. A sure way to drag things into the gutter.

Thanks to those contributors who stay on topic, not derailing behind personal invective.

There is no need to take responsibility for others if we first take PE-EMPTIVE responsibility for OURSELVES and thus avoid IMPOSING upon ANOTHER.

The idea that a MALE PILL is some how an irresponsible copout doesnt make sense, logically speaking. Its a great emotive ploy tho.

Not sure what all the follow on projection of a woman's response has to do with it or how a MALE PILL would compel women to be available for sex on demand. In a word... consent.

Taking a MALE PILL could shift the responsibility for birth control to men, which from my experience and some of the comments here, is a major lament of women.

Yet, the redressing of that responsibility, giving men a taste of that burden is met with claims of it being a 'copout by men'. That claim made by a woman. Which more or less stands as proof positive of the contention that SOME women will find a way to denigrate the MALE PILL, flip the script and turn it into an example of that favoured crusade of MANY women... its all about me, my suffering is greater than yours, its all mens' fault, men are irresponsible copouts and women always suffer at our hand. At the same time proclaiming equality, independence and empowerment. Its just so typical. And people wounder why gender relations are so fundamentally skewed.

Women expect, often demanding, UNILATERAL control of reproductive choice. Its HER body after all. It represents MASSIVE POWER. Essentially the only tangible PERSONAL power that women have OVER men and one of the few, if only, ways that SOME women can get the shoe onto the other foot... at least for those that think in terms of us and them, who keep a running score card of gender defined contribution and perpetual grievance.

What a drag its all becoming.

I disagree Trade, as to why the male pill has not been developed as effectively as the female pill.

Firstly, various research has shown that the 'cyclic' nature of female reproduction is easier to regulate than the 'constant' of male reproduction.

Secondly, both men and women have been reluctant to embrace the concept - men from a lack of desire to change what is often seen as the "women's problem" of contraception, and women from an underlying fear that "but if HE forgets to take HIS pill I AM STILL THE ONE who becomes pregnant and has to deal with that". Women I know tend to feel that they are more likely to remember their pill as not doing so can have immediate consequences.

That said, research has been done into long-term male contraception, implanted hormones etc, and been found reasonably successful. If you are so keen, why not find out more and sign yourself up for a clinical trial? Advance the cause of the male pill a little?

As a person living in Australia, I have free choice on many matters. I can choose not to be a Catholic and not be bound by the dictates of the Catholic Church, as propounded by the Pope and his agents. I appreciate this very much. Similarly, I'm sure that Catholics in Australia are very grateful that they are not forced to go against the tenets of their faith and comply with the dictates of a religion not of their choice.

I believe in freedom of choice in just about any respect which does not unreasonably affect the freedom of others. Some will say that if something [or even just the thought of something] "offends" them, then they are unreasonably affected. This is nonsense, none of us can go through life without being offended. What offends me may be irrelevant to you and vice versa. That's human nature and something most of learn to accept.

I believe that the "possibility" of human life starts with conception and that is all. As Yabby has repeatedly pointed out, a woman can have about 400 "possibilities" in her lifetime, but only a relative handful can reasonably be expected to come to maturity. I accept that different species have widely variable numbers of "possibilities", according to the chances of a sufficient proportion maturing in order to support the continuation of that particular species.

Anyone who thinks differently has a right to feel that way, but has no right to try and browbeat me into submission. And quoting religious sources in order to convince me is futile.

There are a number of posters on this kind of topic who I find logical and reasonable. Those who post from a position of anti choice, particularly when they become abusive and insulting, I find anything but logical and reasonable.

I would not want any woman to be forced to be "counselled" by an anti choice person, because I don't believe that the advice would be impartial. In fact it could have the deliberate effect of creating psychological trauma for the woman supposedly being helped.