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The Forum > Article Comments > Victory - what victory? > Comments

Victory - what victory? : Comments

By Melinda Tankard Reist, published 24/2/2006

Celebrating women's choice to abort with a drinks party.

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Meg1 in Australia all pregnancies that end over 20 weeks must be issued with a death certificate. No doctor in Australia has terminated a 9 month pregnancy when the baby is healthy and viable. You are not debating this question reasonably when you bring in stories from China where there are/were strict population control policies in place.

The tenacity and gusto with which you have argued this question is more commonly found amongst men than women.
Posted by billie, Wednesday, 15 March 2006 3:01:03 PM
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Col, I’d welcome you substantiating ANY of your claims-generalizations.

If you removed anti-Catholic vitriol from your posts, there’d be nothing left.

‘the abortion issue is a… “test” of how the state respects the individual and places individuals, who the state is elected to serve, above the authority of that State.’

If the state disrespects the most vulnerable and innocent, there’s little hope of it respecting the rest of us…

Individual's can't ignore other's welfare.

‘God is the only one whose judgement anyone should care about’

Then why do you pass life-death judgments on the unborn, or Catholics having a say, indeed on anyone? Your hypocrisy is only superseded by your gargantuan ego.

RE: finding your quality of life wanting. Is facing your own mortality too difficult? You can decide the quality of life and fate of another, but don’t like the prospect of the state or another deciding your fate based on their assessment of your ‘quality of life’…hmmmm.

‘…who place the onus on me to find the answer and then take responsibility for the decision and action...’

That’s what you have been constantly challenged to do by the pro-life posters on these threads. Taking responsibility for your decisions and actions would NOT include killing off your ‘mistakes’ when you make a bad decision.

Your constant carping about ‘choice’ ignores your subservience to the law of the land, your ‘footie club’ and its combined membership, etc. You DO what the law says if you are a responsible citizen; you don’t traffic in illegal drugs or weapons and you don’t kill other members of society for the same reason.

Billie your male-female remark is so absurd as to be undeserving of response.

You demand equality and choice for women but are the LAST to allow it yourself.

RE: ‘No doctor in Australia…full-term baby’

Check your statistics and your absurd comments BEFORE you post.

China is not alone is harbouring doctors who will kill a full-term baby.

Careful, you’ll upset Col if you’re suggesting a mother hasn’t the right to kill her full-term baby if it’s inconvenient for her or her ‘partner’.
Posted by Meg1, Thursday, 16 March 2006 8:51:27 PM
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Meg1 “If the state disrespects the most vulnerable and innocent, there’s little hope of it respecting the rest of us…

Individual's can't ignore other's welfare.”

The individuals who are “vulnerable and innocent” are protected by the State and are not ignored by other individuals.

What you seem unable to accept is embryos and foeti are not “individuals”.

Embryos and foeti are part of a duality with the woman in whose body they develop.

The State and reasonable minded folk recognise the lack of “individuality” of embryos and foeti. The welfare of embryos and foeti is delivered first by attention to the pregnant womans welfare.

If, for her own “welfare” she decides abortion is to be, then the State and reasonable minded individuals, in supporting her “welfare” support and respect her right of choice.

Denying her that right to determine what is for her own welfare treats her as having the same level of cognitive skill as an imbecile.

“why do you pass life-death judgments on the unborn, or Catholics having a say”

Supporting other peoples sovereign right to choice is not passing judgement on anyone. Challenging the manic ravings of Catholics in the matter of abortion is not placing a life and death judgement on their right to have a say.
Nor is it “Ego”.
Respecting and publicly supporting other peoples right to self determination is, in fact, an act of “humility”, something which Catholics seem to have trouble with.

“NOT include killing off your ‘mistakes’ when you make a bad decision.”

What I might do is irrelevant. I do not seek to impose my will over others. That it might be the wrong is for God and not for me to decide. I am morally bound to support their choice. If it be a poor choice, then they will doubtless experience some negative influences in the future (eg guilt).

Re Killing other members of society – we are back to recognising “individuality” again

Comment to Billie.

Meg1 you are a BRAZENED LIAR.

I have never suggested a woman’s partner has any right of decision over her abortion choices.
Posted by Col Rouge, Saturday, 18 March 2006 7:36:23 AM
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Col, when it comes to ego, manipulated statistics and brazen lies - you have it on your own - you're the clear 'winner'.

From your first post to your last, you continue to contradict your self and make no more contribution to the threads than to use up the word allocation with your vitriol and bile...go ahead, putting it in print obviously makes you feel you can justify your own existence and point of view.

A pity you can't back up that point of view with more than contradictions and hypocrisy.

Good luck with your life, you'll need it.
Posted by Meg1, Tuesday, 21 March 2006 11:51:01 PM
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So Meg1, apart from self-righteous hissing fits and a diatribe of religious humbug,

Since you claim I “manipulated statistics and brazen lies”

YOU prove the statistics which you introduced originally. PROVE the incidence and reasoning for late term abortions which you claim.

Show me which statistics I have manipulated – evidence your statement with substance or be seen as a brazen liar.

Then you can show me where I ever claimed a woman’s partner should have any say on the decision to abort.

In your post of Thursday 16 March you stated

“Careful, you’ll upset Col if you’re suggesting a mother hasn’t the right to kill her full-term baby if it’s inconvenient for her or her ‘partner’.”

I demand you either withdraw and apologise for your brazen lie that I have, anywhere ever suggested a woman do anything for the convenience of her ‘partner’ (let alone abort her pregnancy).

The alternative displays you as a judgemental hypocrite with no respect for other peoples right of expression.

I have consistently expressed a single view, that view is

Every person holds sovereignty over their own body. I have also identified the moment of birth as being a significant moment when “individuality” is acknowledged.

This view means the state or anyone else cannot tell any one of us how we should use our own body.

That applies to pregnant women as much as it does anyone else.

It is a view which contradicts the manipulators of RCC (YOU), who believe they have a right to inflict their personal values and beliefs on other people who do not share those values and beliefs.

I am merely one individual (among millions) who believes the RCC is corrupt and evil. I will do all I can to ensure that such an organisation, built on vile corruption, never ever holds sway over the life of anyone whose cognitive reasoning skills determine that they can think for themselves.

As for “A pity you can't back up that point of view with more than contradictions and hypocrisy”

Just more of your pathetic hissing fit.
Posted by Col Rouge, Wednesday, 22 March 2006 6:55:29 AM
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“Careful, you’ll upset Col if you’re suggesting a mother hasn’t the right to kill her full-term baby if it’s inconvenient for her or her ‘partner’.”

Note the 'if you're suggesting'...etc. i.e., the suggestion was clearly NOT YOURS, Col...

I have not said that Col said it's inconvenient, etc...

Re-read Col, if you can stop huffing and puffing for long enough...

I did not suggest that you would be upset at both scenarios - your own 'hissing fit' is therefore as inappropriate as your many others.

My emphasis was regarding your persistent argument that killing the baby is OK TO TERM, in your eyes...and that "Careful, you’ll upset Col..." at ANY contrary suggestion...

Get the point Col or are you really so obtuse?

Apology? You ought to be the one apologising for each and every one of your bile-filled posts and your selective use of the contents of others, as evidenced here.
Posted by Meg1, Wednesday, 22 March 2006 11:07:06 PM
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