Hi all

mjpb & Col (posts 3/3/06)

Hope that you 'guys' can put away your daggers & stop 'fighting' with each other!
(3/3/06)

mjpb (post 9:36:01 AM 3/3/06)

"Most people (hopefully) don't put faith in media stories."? Tragically I think that they do!
(13/3/06)

Lady (post 1:21:02 PM 3/3/06)

Sadly most people feel comfortable sitting in the darkness - they don't have to see reality.
(13/3/06)

Rex (post 5:19:02 PM 3/3/06)

".. Some will say that if something [or even just the thought of something] "offends" them, then they are unreasonably affected." That's why the absurdly restrictive & draconian Racial & Religious Vilification laws came into being.

Once Australians used to predominantly ignore the unflattering & ill-informed remarks of others - "Sticks & stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me." Now we litigate.

I am unashamedly pro-life. As someone who has 'legally' killed others, witnessed suicides, & been the 'victim' in a murder - my mum was killed - I am against all murder. That's why I oppose abortion. I also oppose "capital punishment". But I see little point in quoting passages from the Holy Bible to those who co-post on this site.

Australia is a secular democracy based on Christian ethics & morality. However, the majority of citizens from within Christendom are 'nominal' Christians at best.

Hopefully non-believers will be attracted by what I represent - not what I say. I was a non-believer who felt as you do - offended by brow-beating. I empathise.
(13/3/06)

Cheers all

Hi all

mjpb (post 10:36:59 PM 3/3/06)

Protestants would very much argue that Peter wasn't the first Roman Catholic pope.

If he set the template, then he lived in contravention to the celibacy that is demanded by Catholicism. Peter was married. Christ healed Simon Peter's mother-in-law - Matt 8:14; Mark 1:29, &; Luke 4:38.

I would challenge that Peter was "the rock" upon which Christ's church was built, too. Interpretation could be that "the rock" was:
(i) Christ Himself;
(ii) Peter's confession of faith;
(iii) Christ's teachings;
(iv) Peter himself.
I favour # 1 or 3. But, if you favour # 2 or 4, then the church is indeed built on unsafe foundations - Peter was a fallen man who denied Christ 3-times.
Moreover, there is little to suggest that the Roman Catholic Church, persay, existed much before the 3rd Century.

Notwithstanding, we are not here to debate Christian dogma. We are here to discuss abortion. Rightly, the morals & ethics of religion ought to play a part in that debate.
(13/3/06)

Meg 1 (post 3:47:12 AM 4/3/06)

Thanks Meg! - "Littleagreeablebuddy 28-02-06 is correct, .."
(13/3/06)

Te (post 4:16:39 PM 5/3/06)

"It now appears to be 'Kick the Catholics' instead of 'Semantics of Abortion' - get back on track." I agree, & I'm not Catholic.
(13/3/06)

billie (post 5:52:28 PM 5/3/06)

"How many women out there have a regular cycle?" Probably more than 50%, otherwise there wouldn't be a 'regular'.

When I saw what damage the Copper-T & various 'claimed' contraceptives were doing to my wife, we went to a "Russian-roulette" method. By the normal complexities of life, a little understanding of her body, & a degree of self-control on my part, we only had 3-children in 9-years. Two of those were planned.
(13/3/06)

Cheers all

Meg, if a species evolved to regularly kill each other, they would not have survived. Duh, obvious ain’t it. When things get overcrowded and resources run out, like Easter Island, people turned to cannibalism to survive. That’s the danger of overcrowded ecosystems.

Australia spends 50 billion$ a year on social welfare Meg. Nobody needs go
hungry, but some will fall through the cracks, for various reasons. Yes in cities life is more impersonal. Go to country towns, it all changes. See what
happens with overcrowding? You should read the Human Zoo.

In the Congo life has essentially no value. Commit murder and you go to
jail for a week. Fall off a boat and they will let you drown. Read “No Mercy”,
Redmond O’Hanlon’s trip through the Congo.

Corrupt Govts, corporations etc, are essentially groups of people Meg.
Like the Catholic Church, a large corporation selling religion, selling indulgences, selling hope and threatening fear. Power corrupts, even within religions.

Having far more kids then they can afford to feed and educate, is one reason why Africa is in the state its in. Those women should be empowered with choices which they don’t have right now.

If couples decide to have the snip, that has nothing at all to do with Hitler lol.
Its their choice. You are against it for no good reason, other then what your pope says. Many married women who have had enough kids, have an accident, have abortions. It should be their choice, or even better, have the snip and avoid the abortion.

Yes the pope has control over you. For you believe the heaven/hell story and you believe in the infallibility of the pope. If you therefore go against what he says, you might miss your so called ticket to heaven. So fear and hope drive you to behave in the manner that he suggests. Anything else would leave you anxious about burning forever and anxious people are stressed people.

Yabby - the reason Africa is in the state it is in is due to corrupt governments, militia, and the fact that wheat, sugar, rice etc is dumped in the sea to keep the prices up. Also, people of your ilk offload contraception off the planes bringing aid FIRST and what money is left is spent on supplying food to the people.
God isn't so stupid that He would say "Go forth and multiply" but then leave the human race on its own without resources. If everyone in the world with "a little extra" shared it around, no one would go hungry.
I have to ask - how often have YOU contributed to help others - volunteer work perhaps, cash donations to the needy in poor countries, do you sponsor a World Vision child? One would have to guess, no, no and no again. But perhaps I "judge" too harshly..... me thinks not. No compassion resonates through your posts. I wish you peace and joy in your life.

“… those main players have been corrupting the set of rules since the time your club was founded.”

The main players advocate respect and avoiding corruption. If you took a break from your fiction writing and checked the rule book you would find that the basic rules they advocate haven’t changed in 2000 years.

”My club respects everyone as individuals.”

Then play by its rules.

Re: respect: In one of my first posts I bemoaned the lack of moderation and stated that I was becoming extremely annoyed by the defamatory comments you were making about Meg.

Re: individuals: Throughout your posts you have bagged Catholics particularly priests because of behaviour that is underrepresented among them. How can you seriously make that assertion?

” My team tolerates those from opposing clubs.”
See above.

”Your team has a history of rioting and burning to death people who they hear singing the anthem of opposing clubs.”

I believe that if you went into any football club and started singing the anthem of opposing clubs you would be taking a risk. The history of your club is much worse and continues to be much worse. When our club started yours derived sadistic pleasure gathering in stadiums to watch our followers being torn apart by wild animals. To this day they abuse children much more commonly.

”my “own instinct” is to “Act responsibly and morally””
Then why are you arguing with those who advocate this?

””LAB –“But so have wiccans, Atheists etc. Sadly, the predominantly anti-Christian”

All the ills and shortcomings of all the atheists, … do not excuse the Church of Rome for a moment for the the crimes they have committed in the name of God.””

If your club really did requiring respecting people as individuals they would have booted you out long ago.

”… but it will never wash the sin off the hands of the priests, bishops, Cardinals and Popes … systematically abusing children …”

Statistically less of these abuse children than the rest of the world. It is more logical to criticise your club for this behaviour.

Martin Ibn Warriq, Monday, 13 March 2006 4:43:08 PM

“Have you no empathy? Papist propaganda! Is that all you have to say about what you saw?”

I assume that little hissing-fit is directed at me.

I bet you were an “infant-terrible” when younger, nothing much seems to have changed, self-righteous indignation abounds.

Let us get the record straight. I did not bother to go look at your propaganda. Dead bodies, including embryonic ones are always sad and often gruesome,

As for “The attitudes of extreme pro-abortion zealots”.

I have never ever recommended anyone have an abortion.
I have always advocated that it is an individual’s choice and expressed my continued support for the individual, regardless of what their choice may be.
I have always defended the individuals right to self-determination over the right of any governmental or religious expectation to control the individual in the deployment of their own body.

The Zealotry is all yours, demanding to interfere in the sovereign choices of others and using propaganda photos because you have discovered that it is easier to impose your will over them if you first “mess” with their emotions.

As for “Women are mistaken if they think that abortion is an ideal of women’s liberation. Abortion is the product of female enslavement.”

Pure Gingoism. Get out of the pulpit Martin and mix with real people for a change. You are just blowing socio-religious smoke and causing an EPA hazard.

I fail to see how a woman is “enslaved” by exercising her freedom of choice.
You are merely miffed because your will and demand for control over their bodies is being denied. If anything it is you would see women enslaved by forcing them to comply with the demands (to go full term) which you would place upon them.

Next time you address something to me I suggest exercise the common courtesy of using my logon name. I realise you would wish to see me declared an un-person (excommunicated and warranting no identification) but your religion is not universal and its rules of conduct inappropriately applied in this “secular” forum.