I and I suspect others do not have a problem with the stance taken by posters such as Meg1 against abortion. That is their right, their freedom to choose, because it is their body. The problem that has arisen with you Meg1 is that you feel yours is the only viewpoint that should be followed. In reality what is right for you is not necessarily right for another person. There is nothing wrong with being committed to your view or your belief however I do consider it is wrong to act as a judge and jury for others who make a decision that is not in keeping with your principles.

Unfortunately what this debate will always revert to the basis of moral judgement. Part of moral judgement will come down to the inherent selfishness of human beings. Even actions that appear unselfish (such as time spent working for charity) is often motivated by selfish motives - such as altruism. Not everyone will subscribe to this view, frequently called psychological egoism, however if you dig deep you may well find it governs us more that is realised on the surface. Additionally, moral judgements about whether abortion is wrong typically stem from both emotion and reason. Frequently it is from emotion which we attempt to convert into reason and in doing so end up in "debates to nowhere" such as this one.

If we only had reason and no emotional reaction it is unlikely that we would make any moral judgement. Of course there are those who would argue it has nothing to do with judgements emotive or otherwise but rather they are God's commandments and as such should be followed in blind faith - without emotion or reason that can be substantianted, except to other believers. Even without a spiritual basis one could also view it as being immoral because of the beliefs or the laws of their society.

continued.....

The issue of abortion will always be controversial - anything that is housed under the right to self-regulation and the right to life are at the grass roots of morality issues.

At the end of the day all that we can offer to each other as a society is to support those women in need whether they have elected to terminate or not to terminate. More importantly it is hoped that if they have elected RU486 they have done so in an informed manner. Like all the decisions we make in life we will ultimately need to wear the consequences. Some people may need assistance either way to psychologically deal with their decisions. Lets not add any further burdens to their lives by insinuating that abortion amounts to murder - because that is a moral judgement that cannot be made for another human - only for ones self

Quote-“it is wrong to act as a judge and jury for others.” I couldn’t agree more Coraliz, yet that’s exactly what most anti-life posts have done. God judges each of us. I defend or oppose an act, not the person.

Contrary to your comments, I do not feel anger or hostility to those women who do abort. I have seen the results down the track - if the results of abortion on women doesn’t evoke compassion in you, nothing will.

To face those who grieve because they chose abortion, is heart-wrenching in the extreme. I can not replace what they have lost. It nonetheless provides motivation to revert the emphasis to support, not killing. Your word is ‘murder’ Coraliz, not mine…but it is killing…that’s reality, unpleasant though it may be.

In America and the UK the tide is turning…those who ‘ended’ so-called church rules on sexuality, abortion, etc. now admit their ‘experiment’ failed to reduce STDs, AIDs, ‘unwanted’ pregnancies or abuse of women or children. In fact the reverse occurred. Sad to say, Australia blindly follows anyway.

Quote-“Even actions that appear unselfish (such as time spent working for charity) is often motivated by selfish motives - such as altruism.”

Altruism – unselfish concern for the welfare of others.

Gee, thank you for your back-handed compliment. Your comments are again quite confusing and contradictory, even dare I say, judgmental. I can only assume you do not understand the meaning of the word, altruism.

I won’t pretend that I don’t sometimes groan there’s too much to do, but I can say with honesty that feeling is brief, as many who accept this challenge will attest. The rewards are not material, but there is little more satisfying than knowing you have made a positive difference to someone’s life by sharing or resolving some of their difficulties.

Catholics don’t claim to be saints, just imperfect individuals striving to accept the challenge that Christ set for all of us.

It is neither judgmental, nor despotic to oppose what you can see is wrong and harmful.

Meg1
“diatribes of mindless, feet-stamping, slanderous generalizations on the Catholic Church,”

OK which part of the Inquisition are you going to deny?
Which part of the actions of paedophile priests are you going to deny?
Which part of the systematic cover-up of the actions of paedophile priests do you want to deny?

When you can prove I have slanderously alluded to the corruption of the Catholic church through its active participation and collusions with torturers and perverts, then and only then will you have a basis to make such claims, until them you are just blowing smoke to cover the weakness of your own debate.

Nothing I have suggested has been “disproved”

I am not “obsessed with sex” – the Church of Rome is, that is why it sticks its nose into the bedrooms of its congregants and tells them not to use condoms. As I have frequently said here, the decision to abort is a private one, you can take it I consider the actions which brought about the consideration of abortion to be “private” as well.

I wrote “the nature of some of the work I do and positions I hold has necessitated multiple police and other searches for test of character.”

I cannot see where I have suggested how “important” is the work nature, maybe you could point that bit out to me.
You are making things up. It just shows your contempt of all who dare disagree with you.

“Catholics don’t claim to be saints, just imperfect individuals striving to accept the challenge that Christ set for all of us.”

Have respect for all the other non-Catholic “Imperfect individuals”, acknowledge their democratic right to make the decisions in their lives which you want to make in your life, instead of you demanding to make those decisions for them.

That RU486 will be in pharmacies does not mean you have to take it. It does not mean other people have to take it. All it means is if they choose to take it, they can and it is none of your business that they do.

Yabby you have given me an article to look at so I’ll get back to it once I have done it. I don’t have time to follow articles at the moment.

Col what are you going on about. The Catholic Church is an organization that advocates the will of God. It speaks in conscience. The faith of the Church requires speaking up on moral issues.

“Fact The Church of Rome is an archaic organisation which tries to set its own authority up above a democratically elected secular government.”

That is clearly an opinion. The other opinion is that God is universal and has universal authority. Publically agreeing with what you believe is God’s will is not setting your authority above anyone. It is expressing your belief the God is correct and the secular view is wrong.

It is not a democratic organisation.
It is a religious organization for goodness sake. You don’t seem to think that religious people should get a say.

“Col and Yabby again provide diatribes of mindless, feet-stamping, slanderous generalizations on the Catholic Church, pro-lifers in general and Col even exposes his inner ‘soiled child’ in the process. “
Here here. I find it really annoying.

” The problem that has arisen with you Meg1 is that you feel yours is the only viewpoint that should be followed.”
So I presume that you think your viewpoint shouldn’t be followed? If you unlike Meg and contrary to my suspicions don’t care if your viewpoint is followed why are you arguing?

“… I do consider it is wrong to act as a judge and jury for others who make a decision that is not in keeping with your principles.” Is that your judgement?

”Unfortunately …”
Translation: Scout was proved wrong so lets argue that charity might not be altruistic

“… abortion amounts to murder - because that is a moral judgement that cannot be made for another human - only for ones self “
If we can’t make decisions about what is killing than where did criminal laws in relation to the same come from

Oh I am just so happy that I have a very good example of personality from The Lord Jesus Christ Himself who once was in the womb of the precious Mother Mary as a loveable baby whom to born in Bethlehem which the whole world celebrate the coming of the Saviour of the world and his Name was The Lord Jesus Christ Who is The Incarnation of The Almighty Word of God (according to John 1 verse 1 - 14). Herode who was the king in the region of Judea on that time was trying so hard to kill all babies and he did killed more than 2000 babies to get rid of The Lord Jesus Christ, so that He will not redeem us through his death and resurrection. Nor Mother Mary ever think to abort the Almighty Baby Jesus (God in human form)..Now in the Power of The Blood of Jesus there will be no devil or evil spirit can stand, Amen !
So I am following the Life Giver God and will enjoy my life here knowing that there will be no human blood (evern the blood of the unborn babies) be put on our responsibility in hell later...for it written : no murderer/killer will have a place in Heaven and God commanced us :"Do not kill". Since a baby in the form of empregnated eggs, already has all they need to form a perfect human being, so Do not kill them, because once every human being was just like them, like you too. Obey God ore disobey God You can choose now.