"Draw, for a moment, an imaginary line across the story of the past; forget all that has happened since the year 4 B.C.; rule out from your mind all the reverence with which centuries of Christianity have invested the Old Testament, all the prejudices which the accidents of later times have raised against the Jewish character as a factor in world-history. Isolate in your mind the picture of a little people, assailed and half-infected by all the superstitions of the ancient world--the animal-worship of Egypt, the vegetation cults of the Canaanitish aborigines, the astrology of Babylon, the cultured anthropomorphism of classical Greece-- yet ever obstinately retaining, after a thousand half-surrenders and tentative apostasies, the conception of a single God, unique in his majesty, controlling the destinies of all nations and all the forces of the created universe. Is there not, in that picture, something infinitely noble, some quality of unexpectedness which almost demands a special Divine revelation to account for it? Is it mere coincidence that amidst all the clash of Empires around the eastern shores of the Mediterranean, unchanged by the influence of Egyptian, Hittite, Assyrian, Syrian, Chaldean, or Phoenician civilisation, unconquered in its inmost hopes by the conquests of a Cyrus, an Alexander, or a Pompey, one tiny mountain people should have cherished like a sacred fire, its inviolable tradition of worship, should have upheld, to the unseeing eyes of pagan antiquity, a conception of fundamental theology which centuries of subsequent reflection have neither modified nor improved?" R.Knox

The Jews are much more than you think sunsie.

Whatever you say about Zionism, perspective demands an equal treatment of Mohammedanism and its imperialism .If we are talking about history how far should we go back? Fide asks a pertinent question. I think I want the Muslims to give back Egypt - no all of North Africa. I want Asia Minor back yeah and the Hagia Sophia . . . .

Sympathies to the innocents that have suffered. But the palestinian is very far from the only victim.
For an understanding of Jews and Muslims read Rosenzweig 'Star of Redemption'

Sunisle
you make the usual mistake of mentioning only the expulsion of Palestinians, without mentioning a similar expulsion/exodus of Jews forced out of surrounding Arab countries.

Why did you do that ?

Selective omission is just as bad as selective inclusion.

Lets go back in History a bit... the year AD70, when Berlesconie's great (x 50) grand daddy and his Roman hoardes expelled the Jews from 'THEIR' homeland, and spread them around the empire in places like Spain etc.

Now, no matter what your view of history or your own situation right now.. u can be sure of one thing. YOU are living on 'Stolen property'

Lets explore a little scenario, you are aboriginal, and it so happens that the whites were not successful in reducing your numbers to insignificance.. and there are approximately 50% Aboriginal population here. They team up with Lybia or someone, who supplies them with weapons..and they plan a cultural/militray coup. Guess what.. I would have to agree that they were just 'fixing a historic injustice'.
Of course the politically correct would send up a howwwwwl of protest about 'the poor white people.. cast out.. nowhere to go.. all refugees over their in Tassy or Kiwiland.... poor us'.

The Jews are rectifying a long standing historic injustice, and with Divine backing, (the covenant promises "To you and your offspring I give this land FOREVER") they probably have more claim to a bit of real estate than any other race in the world.

Every nation today, exists because of an injustice at some time. Conflicts currently raging are current 'injustices' or.. 'fixing injustices' (see history of Congo wars) and when the dust settles.. it will still be an 'un'just status quo.

Ashkenazi (Russian) Jews can be traced back to a son of Noah.

There is a current day aspect of this struggle that impacts on every Australian.

There are two old adages: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" and "The friend of my enemy is my enemy."

Australians have now been attacked several times by Islamic terrorists, thankfully so far only overseas, and these terrorists loudly proclaim their desire to continue to attack Australia in any way they can.

The people of Palestine, particularly through their support of Hamas at the recent election, have demonstrated their support for these terrorists.

As a result, for solely Australian reasons, most Australians would consider Israel to be our ally, and Palestine to be our enemy.

This does not involve peaceful, devout Muslims living in Australia who are loyal to Australia and abhor the deeds perpetrated in the name of their religion. These people are welcome among us, and can provide valuable linguistic and cultural skills to Australia in tracking down the terrorists. They fill a similar role to Israeli Arabs, who I am sure have been of great service to Israel. One of the great problems that America has is that it does not seem to have a similar group in the US.

fide mae I'm sure it does say in Christian / Jewish based history that the Jews were there first. However the reality based secular archeology and biology clearly shows they are the same people Arabs and Jews are Semites. The bit you have to get your head around is that the old testament is a work of fiction very few of the stories in it have any basis in fact. The fact is the semi–nomad hill tribes that evolved into Jews are directly related to the plains dwelling people of the area.
Anyway getting back to the subject I was taught as a child that two wrongs don’t make a right (some parents still teach this hopefully). However it tends to be the exact thing we do when wronged. In WW2 the German air force started dropping bombs on civilian targets how did we respond by doing the same to them only we did it bigger and better. Now the scale of the conflict is much smaller the Is rails responded to the Palestinian attacks in much the same way as we did.. Was it wrong to do those things ? Yes was it wrong to relate like that? Yes, Would I do the same thing? Yes but I would feel bad about it if I thought about what I was doing. This doubt plagues all when the angry has gone and there is time to think. And this is what this movie is about. We will only have piece when moral doubt defeats boths sides will to continue the fight.

"The bit you have to get your head around is that the old testament is a work of fiction very few of the stories in it have any basis in fact. The fact is the semi–nomad hill tribes that evolved into Jews are directly related to the plains dwelling people of the area."

Che?

Kenny the bit you have to get your head around is the idea of widening one's reading. Read 'The Lost Testament' David Rohl an Egyptologist/Archeologist or whatever. Using the same old critical archeological methods he concludes the Old Testament is bloody good history.

You do know how to read the Bible don't you Kenny? I mean you wouldn't read a comic like you would a newspaper or textbook. Do you which genre each book in the Bible is?

Try a little caution when talking about topics you don't really understand.

BOAZ_david,

It may be a surprise to you, but I am talking about living , breathing human beings....some occupied and some in a diaspora in refugee camps and detention centres around the world. Now, you may not care about this, but I do. These are irreplaceable human beings that deserve, and are entitled to, what we all take for granted.
You can talk all you want about the distant past...but I care about helping people who are suffering as we speak regardless of their race, religion, or colour.

I have Welsh blood...should I, and others with Welsh blood around the wordl, go to Wales and expel, massacre and put in refugee capms the peole there because we have Druid ancestors? This nonsense about land that God gave the Jews is at best, silly, at worst, a travesty. All human beings deserve a free homeland, not just "chosen" people!

The people who came to Israel from around the world after 1948 had no connection to the land. Palestinians, of all religions, were living there...tilling the land, their crops and animals, building homes and towns...as their forefathers had done. Not so, the people who came from Europe...and then later from North America.

Ghandi spoke of not agreeing with the partition of India and Pakistan...and the colonisation of Palestine. However, he felt it was too late to turn back the clocks....but the injustice of what happened to Palestine could be halted