Yabby – tradition – dinosaurs – nurturing instinct etc. I am a bloke and I have no desire to watch bulky, ugly men fighting over a football.

We live in a new era mate. No use in referring to how we were as a way of saying how we should be now. We are a higher order species. I have no urge to go around smashing women over the head, dragging them into a cave and raping them senseless, as my cave-ancestors once thought was acceptable. In 200 years time the Neanderthals will truly be extinct and we can really move forward.

Tubley, the male/female thing is not about 50/50, more like a spectrum and we get all types along that spectrum. We can find effeminate males and macho females along that spectrum, look around you.

What it comes down to is that hormones affect behaviour and genes affect behaviour. The thinking/aware parts of the human brain are only part of it. Denying biology as part of human behaviour would be pretty silly.

There is a good book written years ago now, called Brainsex. It will explain the basics to you. Including why gays are like they are, despite claims by the religious nuts that its all free will etc.

I am glad you don't have those cave man desires Tubley, but I think that Yabby has a valid point. It takes many many centuries for genetic inheritances to alter because it is such a slow process, particularly in some people. If it occurred faster or simply because we were in an era of different behaviours and thought processes, we would all have started to grow web feet by now because we certainly don't use our toes the way our ancestors did. Evidence of differences that are legacies of the bygone era of the nurturer vs. the hunter can be seen in areas such as women's lack of spatial ability compared to men - (okay not all women!, some have progressed and can map read). Of course we are continually changed by our environment, adaptation, and socialisation but the biological factors seem to linger.

Hi Kay, good point, SuziQ's post was a great one. In my haste to differ on the companionship thing I forgot to acknowledge the rest of the content.

I find a mix of good and bad in both women and men. Maybe the strengths and weaknesses lie in different places. The impression of women being more emotionally and mentally manipulative is one I feel some sympathy for (might be something to do with my own experience though). Maybe a counterpoint for the higher levels of physical violence by men in the general community.

I certainly agree that some parts of the deal are bad for men at the moment. I think we are all struggling with a change in expectations for life, relationships and everything. The rules are changing, many women still seem to want to be wooed by guys they like but if someone they don't like tries to woo them they are a stalker and a creep. Guys are bagged for being committment phobic but still do most of the proposing while reportedly over 70% of marriage breakups are initiated by women. It can be kind of confusing out there. We get scared to get into relationships with good friends because we don't want to ruin the friendship if it goes wrong rather than using a great friendship as a starting place.

Relationships have got tied up in consumerism, if our partner is not good enough we upgrade, we don't get into relationships with people who are not good looking enough, wealthy enough, sophisticated enough, fit enough or whatever. We don't want to waste our lives with someone who's specifications are not top notch. How many really happy looking couples have I seen where from the outside neither looks special but where they seem to really enjoy one anothers company? Why do I still count beauty highly when considering potential partners. And before women crack up at that how many of you dimiss guys who don't have plenty of money?

Somewhat of a waffle but hopefully some of the thoughts will be useful.

Cheers
R0bert

Part 1

74 postings before this one and only one poster has had any reality, sense and decency to add to the discussion - that of SuziQ - in my opinion.

That's pretty sad seeing how she's a woman. It says heaps about the nature of the article and how men are oblivious to their own plight.

The gross misunderstandings of the majority of people about the sad and dire situation of men today, in particular the rubbish espoused by men themselves about the problem above, is amazing. It proves Dr West's points about men's abuse and masculinity being maligned by the media. Even the men themselves are blind to it. It's a sad time, but one day men will be men again.

But then, who am I to comment?

You may well ask.

Let me tell you that that's unimportant. What is important is that I have studied this matter, seriously, in depth, for the last three years on a daily basis. I am a serious student of the sex wars. I do know the players. I know who the protagonists are and I know their writings deeply. I have made it my business to know.

I know how they play the game and I even know why they play it. I know these things, but in 350 words or less, this is not the place to write about it. It's a complex and political subject and it requires much deeper explanation.

What I will say is that I believe that the bulk of the posts above prove Dr West's point convincingly - not even men know they're having the piss taken out of them daily in the media. And that's the point of West's article, in case no one noticed. Go read it again.

Part 2

Having said that, let me tell you that although West himself is one of the bigger local players in this sex war, he is of extremely small calibre. He's typical of all academics in today's PC world - gutless. He knows what's going on but he's too afraid to actually write strongly about the truth for fear that his professional situation may be jeopardised.

Men - and I use the term loosely - like Peter West are our biggest liability today. They see that the emperor has no clothes, but unlike a real man, he lacks the guts to speak the full truth and make the overt declaration. He just hints around the subject hoping you'll work it out for yourself, like in the effeminate article above.

Frankly, I've got more respect for the enemies of men - the feminists - at least they've got the guts to speak loudly about their own opinions and they don't mince about with words.

But one day, real men will stand tall and proud and speak their mind and real women will be pleased - like SusiQ - that such men do exist. For now we suffer the PC wimps like West and other academics and the likes of the so-called men who have written on this forum.