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The Forum > Article Comments > Back off Michelle Leslie - time for honesty about lying > Comments

Back off Michelle Leslie - time for honesty about lying : Comments

By Mirko Bagaric, published 5/12/2005

Mirko Bagaric argues Michelle Leslie was right to lie to get out of an Indonesian jail.

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We are famous for bullsh*t and it is often amusing, creative and a shaggy dog way of dealing with difficult or unhappy situations. It demonstrates our culturally strong and pragmatic belief that life for many is nasty, brutish and short but there is no point just crying about it all the time.

Bullsh*t is not, however, traditionally associated with outright lying. When we lie, we are usually and beneficially "outed" by our peers or family - that's our culture speaking. Like drunk d*ckheads at a party, we say to them "C'mon...grow up mate". And if you do get caught, then you're meant to cop it sweet and just admit it.

But the penalty of lying is not usually spending time inside an Indonesian jail. With such high stakes, what we do there is surely our own very private decision and perhaps it will be one we regret later. It would be bizarre tho, to claim that a decision to commit perjury in court was not made under duress and distress. Perhaps she should have thought before she acted. Yes she should have told the truth. Perhaps she isn't a nice person. But whose actual business is all this now?

But since when do we have to carry on here like a pork chop just because the media orders us to? Her mates will let her know in no uncertain terms whether they thought she was honest, a liar or a weak willed person in a Balinese dock that could be forgiven but never emulated or praised.

We don't like hypocrites but we also don't normally launch moral attacks on individuals just for our amusement. We too know the public spotlight can tilt towards us as well and never leave. Being let out of jail may not have been the end of her troubles, for her friends they may have only just begun.

..as usual i think shakespeare had and has it right ...

To thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man..
Posted by Ro, Monday, 5 December 2005 12:24:35 PM
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Michelle must be the only well-adjusted, healthy Australian around.
Everyone else lies.
Posted by GlenWriter, Monday, 5 December 2005 12:41:08 PM
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The fuzzy morality of this article makes me really uncomfortable. There is a big difference between a little white lie and a big, fat hairy one. In the same way that I'd rather be told that my behind has grown unfortunately large without my notice than discover that I've been patronised by someone I trusted. Similarly, a lie in a court of law regardless of the geographic context shouldn't be a recommended course of action. Because the outcome is never reliable. Perhaps leaving a few details out would be better than an outright fib. Wouldn't a key feature of establishing character in a court of law be the ability to tell the truth? The problem with lawyers these days is that they encourage their clients to tell an untruth just in case they have a gullible jury in the interests of allowing a guilty party to escape punishment. It is then up to all other members of the court to work out the truth and wonder for the rest of their days whether justice had really been served. Similarly lying to someone pointing a gun at me in the interests of self defence is totally different to lying to a panel of judges. Simply because, the process of reason is different. A gunman is not rational whereas a court of law is. Equally Mirko - should I then, by your reasoning, lie to escape torture?

And sure if I'm in Amsterdam I'm not going to be arrested for carrying ecstasy OR for enjoying the benefits of legalised prostitution. But that doesn't make it acceptable for Amsterdam-ians to carry on the same way in Indonesia. If I'm in India, I can't drink alcohol on a friday and I'm fine with that because they are their laws and I should respect that. If you don't agree with the legal system of the country, don't travel there.
Posted by Audrey, Monday, 5 December 2005 12:47:43 PM
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Mirko is right. Faced with years in a stinking hole where you may die from tropical and instutional infections, sexual abuse, physical abuse and emotional blackmail an intelligent person uses all the resources at their disposal to avoid this fate. The police and courts use violence and abuse, outright exagerations and distortions - (lies) to get convictions. It goes on in all courts where one side is set against the other. What righteous twaddle to blame a young woman from a western nation intent on saving her own life in a third world hell hole. We all do what we have to in crisis. Michelle is a great gal and needs a pat on the back not a kick in the head. She comes from what was once a free freedom loving nation. Some of us still believe in this outdated idea.
Posted by Barfenzie, Monday, 5 December 2005 2:00:32 PM
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Hasn't the media had its kick out of this business yet? After all the mileage they got, it must be time to pick on another victim.
Otherwise the reading public will get bored and stop buying books and papers.
Come on , we demand a new sensation every second week at least.
Posted by mickijo, Monday, 5 December 2005 2:25:34 PM
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Who really cares if Leslie lied?

Indonesia, a deeply religious nation apparently, is one of the most corrupt nations on earth. Sound contradictory doesn't it? Similiar to how all the South American footballers run on to the field doing the cross sign to show they are religious yet it is they who get all the yellow & red cards for dirty play.

Who wouldn't pay off corrupt judges trying you by a filthy, draconian set of values they live by.

More to the point regarding how Muslims were angry about Leslie, I have two points.

1. We constantly hear that it's a womans choice to wear the veil, although that lie was resolved when the head of Australia's Islamic Council said "As a Muslim, she must wear the veil".

2. Where was the outrage by Muslims when more than 30 Muslim detainees converted to Christianity so they could stay in Australia? They did it becuase they knew we wouldn't send them back to nations like Iran that punish apostates by death.

Somebody answer these please
Posted by Benjamin, Monday, 5 December 2005 4:00:46 PM
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