We are famous for bullsh*t and it is often amusing, creative and a shaggy dog way of dealing with difficult or unhappy situations. It demonstrates our culturally strong and pragmatic belief that life for many is nasty, brutish and short but there is no point just crying about it all the time.

Bullsh*t is not, however, traditionally associated with outright lying. When we lie, we are usually and beneficially "outed" by our peers or family - that's our culture speaking. Like drunk d*ckheads at a party, we say to them "C'mon...grow up mate". And if you do get caught, then you're meant to cop it sweet and just admit it.

But the penalty of lying is not usually spending time inside an Indonesian jail. With such high stakes, what we do there is surely our own very private decision and perhaps it will be one we regret later. It would be bizarre tho, to claim that a decision to commit perjury in court was not made under duress and distress. Perhaps she should have thought before she acted. Yes she should have told the truth. Perhaps she isn't a nice person. But whose actual business is all this now?

But since when do we have to carry on here like a pork chop just because the media orders us to? Her mates will let her know in no uncertain terms whether they thought she was honest, a liar or a weak willed person in a Balinese dock that could be forgiven but never emulated or praised.

We don't like hypocrites but we also don't normally launch moral attacks on individuals just for our amusement. We too know the public spotlight can tilt towards us as well and never leave. Being let out of jail may not have been the end of her troubles, for her friends they may have only just begun.

..as usual i think shakespeare had and has it right ...

To thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man..

Michelle must be the only well-adjusted, healthy Australian around.
Everyone else lies.

The fuzzy morality of this article makes me really uncomfortable. There is a big difference between a little white lie and a big, fat hairy one. In the same way that I'd rather be told that my behind has grown unfortunately large without my notice than discover that I've been patronised by someone I trusted. Similarly, a lie in a court of law regardless of the geographic context shouldn't be a recommended course of action. Because the outcome is never reliable. Perhaps leaving a few details out would be better than an outright fib. Wouldn't a key feature of establishing character in a court of law be the ability to tell the truth? The problem with lawyers these days is that they encourage their clients to tell an untruth just in case they have a gullible jury in the interests of allowing a guilty party to escape punishment. It is then up to all other members of the court to work out the truth and wonder for the rest of their days whether justice had really been served. Similarly lying to someone pointing a gun at me in the interests of self defence is totally different to lying to a panel of judges. Simply because, the process of reason is different. A gunman is not rational whereas a court of law is. Equally Mirko - should I then, by your reasoning, lie to escape torture?

And sure if I'm in Amsterdam I'm not going to be arrested for carrying ecstasy OR for enjoying the benefits of legalised prostitution. But that doesn't make it acceptable for Amsterdam-ians to carry on the same way in Indonesia. If I'm in India, I can't drink alcohol on a friday and I'm fine with that because they are their laws and I should respect that. If you don't agree with the legal system of the country, don't travel there.

Mirko is right. Faced with years in a stinking hole where you may die from tropical and instutional infections, sexual abuse, physical abuse and emotional blackmail an intelligent person uses all the resources at their disposal to avoid this fate. The police and courts use violence and abuse, outright exagerations and distortions - (lies) to get convictions. It goes on in all courts where one side is set against the other. What righteous twaddle to blame a young woman from a western nation intent on saving her own life in a third world hell hole. We all do what we have to in crisis. Michelle is a great gal and needs a pat on the back not a kick in the head. She comes from what was once a free freedom loving nation. Some of us still believe in this outdated idea.

Hasn't the media had its kick out of this business yet? After all the mileage they got, it must be time to pick on another victim.
Otherwise the reading public will get bored and stop buying books and papers.
Come on , we demand a new sensation every second week at least.

Who really cares if Leslie lied?

Indonesia, a deeply religious nation apparently, is one of the most corrupt nations on earth. Sound contradictory doesn't it? Similiar to how all the South American footballers run on to the field doing the cross sign to show they are religious yet it is they who get all the yellow & red cards for dirty play.

Who wouldn't pay off corrupt judges trying you by a filthy, draconian set of values they live by.

More to the point regarding how Muslims were angry about Leslie, I have two points.

1. We constantly hear that it's a womans choice to wear the veil, although that lie was resolved when the head of Australia's Islamic Council said "As a Muslim, she must wear the veil".

2. Where was the outrage by Muslims when more than 30 Muslim detainees converted to Christianity so they could stay in Australia? They did it becuase they knew we wouldn't send them back to nations like Iran that punish apostates by death.

Somebody answer these please

Of course were all glad she got out. Wish that other girl had as well.

Its importent to remeber
Muslim or non muslim …. Michelle DOES NOT have to do or change anything as an Australian muslim women she is free by Australian law to wear bikins, drink beer (even even a hell of a lot of it), cuddle pigs or have sex with any man or woman or transsexual they want to. She may even want to criticize Allah who knows.

She IS FREE to do all this under Ozzy law.

There is no sharia and there will never be sharia. Never forget for a second we are actually free here

I heartily agree. Being Muslim doesn't give you ownership over Islam. I laughed when all these self appointed imams started crawling out from under their respective rocks to complain about Michelle's attire. Personally, I think they were angry at her because she was a muslim woman in a situation they couldn't control.
I thought she looked lovely in her veil.
I didn't think gee, she's a muslim?
Wasn't so long ago Catholic women wore head cover, you know.
At the end of the day it's a piece of clothing.
And I don't care whether she lied or not. That's her business and her situation.
She is free.

I really don't know why we are still talking about Michelle Leslie. Maybe in this case she was just a handle for Mirko to hang an article onto.

I am a regular visitor to Bali. Not a problem, I don't do drugs [apart from the local spirit, arak, which goes well with Coca Cola]. But I would be prepared to say and/or do all sorts of things to avoid a holiday in the so-called Kerobokan Hilton.

I think it is probably worth mentioning that, although Indonesia is predominantly Muslim, Bali is 90% Hindu, with small Muslim, Christian, Buddhist and Animist minorities . And in Bali, they all get on very well indeed, a wonderful example of tolerance.

Muslim females in most parts of Indonesia are under no obligation, legal, religious, family or social, to wear a veil or hijab. And some who do choose to wear a hijab team it with things like little tops and very tight jeans.

I have an English born [white Caucasian] friend who lives in Bali and his wife is a Muslim from the island of Java, where Islam is the predominant religion. She never wears a hijab and neither did several female members of her family when I met them at a barbecue. And one of her aunts who lives in Java has converted to Christianity, without any unfortunate repercussions.

I just mention this because there are probably a lot of misapprehensions about Muslim Indonesia. Yes, corruption of various kinds is endemic, but do we kid ourselves on that corruption is rare in Australia?

"So the notion of national sovereignty cannot be used to justify draconion laws".
So then who on earth then has the right, God given or otherwise to decide on that one.
It seems now that since the end of the cold war the west, or rather certain aspects of it have taken the right to decide to others what THEY think is right and what THEY think is wrong.
I detect a sense of racism here where those from a western extracttion have taken on the concept of cultural seperiority at the expense of everyone else.
The catch phrase "Human rights" has been diluted beyond all recognition and is now used as Trojan horse to peddle any western value be it decadent or otherwise.
Its morally unacceptable.

Gavin Staples.

Cambridge UK.

http://www.gavinstaples.com

Thank you Mirko Bagaric. Now I understand - as long as it suits me, I can lie all I like.
What a load of garbage!

Its not the lies of a desparate prisoner in a corrupt system I'm concerned about. Its the half-truths, distortions, exaggerations and other misrepresentations of the media that report on her. In the light of their reportage, week in, week out, for nothing more than ego and crass profit, her defense arguments pale to insignificance.

I may not believe everything that an accused person may say. But I am crystal clear on how much I trust the majority of contemporary media.

Stop! Lets not discuss the underwear model anymore. She should also do herself a favour and dissapear back into her hedonistic world of modelling, and stay out of our newspapers,off our TV sets. You got lucky, leave it at that. Dont bore us with your pleas of innocence, we know you were not. Three months jail was tough but it was better than 15 years. Oh what a blessing money can be.

Rex and dicky…
I haven’t seen you here before but would like to say thanks for the insightful, tolerant views. There are far too few here at times. Outsiders reading this forum as an example of Australian thinking would, I fear, see us as small, Western-centric fools… but then, maybe most are.

The article suggests that everyone lies some of the time. Fair enough. To then propose that this is alright is a little too much. To me it is an example of the continued downward pressure on social standards.

Shouldn’t society be setting high ideals as the standard? Sure, they may be difficult to attain but by lowering the benchmark, we lower the effort required to reach it – and thereby lower the overall average standard.

Many a cry is heard that our world has lost its moral compass. Some claim this is a result of a loss of religion.

I do not believe religion has exclusive rights to values. Many atheists have high values – and many religions of differing beliefs have similar high values. With such diversity, it does not appear to that any religions ‘owns’ values.

I would argue that it is apathy – laziness – that is eating away at our values. Modern comfort and a bombardment, through the various medias, pushing us to consume, to want, to demand more from society, could be a large cause. The Western world is told that you don’t have to do without, while millions live in abject poverty elsewhere.

We have perhaps become a little selfcentred?

Further, while many claim a loss of religion – look at how our leaders turn to religion for the new vote – how many claim that Capitalism (with a capital ‘C’) contributes to these problems? As it ignores the by-products of its production needs: exploitation, disenfranchisement, inequity, I ask could it be the true cause of these issues for the third world – let alone those in the West – family breakdown, double standards, profit over social needs?

This is all for now. Just have a little think…

If everybody in a court of law ever told the truth, there would be no need for judges, lawyers, and, come to think of it, law professors to teach lawyers!

I cannot imagine a 24-year old who dropped out from school at age 15 because she "rowed" with her Filipina mother, and whose first job was as a "bouncer," can possibly be so sophisticated to tell such a web of lies (white, or otherwise) as being alleged. If there were any lies being hatched, her advisers and her lawyers who are paid to do the advising, and talking, have alot to explain about their role in advising the ever changing stories.

As for the Singaporean model "Mia" in this whole affair, of course she has had to be publicly "exonerated" by Michelle, because she is a Singaporean, and she will have no career whatsoever in any field if the Singapore authorities think she is doing drugs in Indonesia. So, the story has been put out to fudge things, and make life easier for her in Singapore. Michelle should be praised, not damned for putting up a smokescreen to help "Mia."

The real issue arising from Michelle Leslie's case in Bali is the apparent severity of sentencing (possible 15 years for 2 pills) which needs to be addressed. This is completely disproportionate to the crime, and the Michelle Leslie case would have been a good opportunity to address this basic issue to protect tourists, not just in Indonesia, but in all of Southeast Asia where there are similar laws.

Unfortuntately, The Australian media, Muslim "leaders", and Australian politicians completely messed things up by treating a victim of draconian laws (Michelle)as if she was some horrible criminal. The Prime Minister of Australia even forgot that he is supposed to be standing up for Australians, and managed to do what is surely the job of the Indonesian President, and warn that Indonesians should not be "humiliated."

Draconian laws humiliate the Indonesians. Australians, however, "humiliated" themselves by totally mishandling the Michelle Leslie case, especially after her release from her Bali prison.

I think this is an argument of who the lie affects and who it doesn't. It isn't really of too much consequence to anyone other than Leslie if she lies or not.

BUT...

If her freedom were to compromise somebody else then that's another story.

Here are two situations:

1) The school bully gets his toy truck stolen by one of his victims who then goes on to blame it on someone else. The accused gets bashed by the bully and the thief (former victim) walks free. The act of theft was bad, the lying that follows is also bad and, of course, the bashing is really bad.
2) The school bully gets his toy truck stolen by one of his victims and the theif (former victim) denies any involvement but does not blame anyone else. Noone gets bashed and the theif (former victim) walks free.

The bully has been lied to and lost something that belonged to him. This is bad. But he is still the school bully and his usual cruelty still remains a bad thing that people fear enough to resort to lying.

I see the Leslie situation more closely related to the second scenario I mentioned and I think that is justified. I just hope she doesn't do it again.

It's hard to believe anyone would fault leslie for lying to get out of that hell hole.
Anyone who claims they wouldn't do the same if in the same situation is either a liar or a fool.
Where do all these self righteous, "holier than thou" types come from anyway - and can we send them back please?

ts importent to remeber
Muslim or non muslim …. Michelle DOES NOT have to do or change anything as an Australian muslim women she is free by Australian law to wear bikins, drink beer (even even a hell of a lot of it), cuddle pigs or have sex with any man or woman or transsexual they want to. She may even want to criticize Allah who knows.

She IS FREE to do all this under Ozzy law.

There is no sharia and there will never be sharia. Never forget for a second we are actually free here