It just occured to me that there is much in Fr Daves work that draws comparison with the ancient spartan ways of upbringing or maybe just Ancient Greek culture in general.

Does anyone else get that sense?

Some more points.

A good teacher inspires and makes learning exciting and a process of discovery.

Boxing is not the only sport worth doing and has some problems with mismatching if made universal. That is why Aussie rule is such a good game. Anyone can play it.

Actually Jellyback, not everyone has the ideal body shape and skills for Melbourne Rules.

I saw the Sydney Swans some years ago doing a publicity shoot on the streets of Sydney. What fascinated me was the general uniformity of build and the overall small size of the players in comparison to those of the Rugby codes, in which players of different sizes and skills can be accommodated. Not every person in the world can kick well, not every player can mark well, however in the Rugby codes there is a place for the heavily built tight forward, the nimble half back, the fleet footed winger or centre.

The artificial nature of Melbourne Rules is also intriguing, I mean, why do you have to punch the ball instead of throwing it? Why do you have to bounce it every few metres when you are running? I know that the answer is that the ball is meant to be kicked, but that is part of that artificiality, as is the restriction on good hard clean tackling. It is okay to embed your knees in someone's back when taking a mark, but not to tackle someone to the ground when they are carrying the ball?

As you can tell I am not a fan of Melbourne Rules, and I never will be. Melbourne Rules will never be the national game that it wants to be, because it excludes too many body types from its elite.

Once again, we seem to be taking a very specific view of what masculinity is or what it means to be a man. This ideal of physical toughness as representing the aspirations of males seems to dominate in these sorts of discussions, pariticularly when those such as Father Dave cannot see outside of where they are coming from - a very narrow and traditional view of masculinity. Look around you: adolescent males and men are defining and expressing their masculinities in more ways than one. And that does not mean they are becoming feminine, it means men can aspire to more than the dominant traditional form of (hegemonic) masculinity.

One of the reasons why feminism was good for men in Australia is because it allowed men to look at their gender values. Feminism allowed women to challenge their traditional roles, and look at what it has done for them - improved outcomes in all areas of their lives, including health and well-being. Men need to be able to identify traditional roles and make up their mind about whether or not they want to subscribe. Who knows, we might even see a reduced rate of diseases and disorders associated with trad. masculine behaviour!

cheers,
nula

Sorry Hamlet-just stiring the pot with a bit of friendly parochialism.

However it does make a point. For me its the fact that my dad took me down to the Kensington footy oval when I was 6 to play for the club. Couldnt kick, couldnt mark, couldnt run. Not much has changed. But the idea is to run around having a good time following in the footsteps of our dads.

To a kid thats heaven, no matter what code he's playing-

except maybe grid-iron.

Jellyback, I was the nose tackle in the 1987 championship Bondi Raiders gridiron team......

Each play put me one on one, or sometimes one on two, against the player or players opposing me. Each play was both an individual contest and a team struggle. My primary role was to convince the opposing centre (the guy who snaps the ball to the quarterback) or opposing offensive guards, that they really didn't want to be there at just that moment.

It was one of the best sports that I ever played. The only other sport that exceeded it in terms of teamwork was rowing, which is not for everyone because it requires certain body types for optimal performance.

At least in American football different body types can be accomodated.

But I would never suggest that this type of contact sport is for everyone.

To me the best sport which has ever been invented is Ballroom/Latin dancing. A male contestant in a recent TV dancing competition remarked that holding a lightly clad girl in your arms sure beats having your face shoved up against a couple of guys' bums in the scrum. As an ex rugby union player myself, I can relate to that.

When I was 16, my mother told me that if I learned to dance I would meet plenty of nice girls. She also knew that it would encourage me to smarten myself up a bit, learn courtesy and feel comfortable in mixed company. She had enough sense not to stress these points however, she just stuck to the "meet girls" bit.

I'm 71 and I still dance 4 or 5 times a week. The sports trainer at the gym has told me that my dancing is the main reason for my good balance and flexibility. I have plenty of friends of both sexes, including many much older than me, who still enjoy dancing on a regular basis. It must be the only very active sport which includes a good mixed social life and that can be enjoyed for as long as you can get onto your feet. And it costs almost nothing to do as well.

My first wife and I parted company when I was 43. I suppose I could have gone to the pub and talked to the other guys about jobs, cars and footy. And we could have whinged to one another about how you just couldn't meet nice women. But no, I went dancing and found that nothing had changed, still plenty of nice ladies happy to meet men of moderate habits who could dance.

And still nothing has changed. There are still plenty of nice ladies at dances waiting to meet men who can dance with open arms [literally].