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The Forum > Article Comments > Boys must be boys > Comments

Boys must be boys : Comments

By Dave Smith, published 29/11/2005

Dave Smith argues boys would benefit from an initiated rite into manhood - in the boxing ring

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Dave,

I agree somewhat, and you know i am an advocate for what you do.

Perhaps if it was done through schools so it was compulsory, or through the community it could be done.

I feel if kids had structured training from those that have the background, rather than through fathers (as you know, plenty of kids who need this dont have a role model) it could be similar to an initiation of other cultures into manhood.

This is an essential and overlooked part of the male psyche. For a boy to become a man, in the mind many changes will take place. its not just the three rounds, it is the feeling of responsiblity that being a man entails.

Manhood should not be given away, it is something that should be earned and boys should aspire to become. Responsibility, maturity, discipline and goals are what should be hand in hand with this experience, along with being welcomed by male friends, role models and family.

I hope you fix the 'Initiation' into Australian culture, somehow it will probably end up a pipedream though.
Posted by Realist, Tuesday, 29 November 2005 11:03:51 AM
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I'm a fan Dave done a fair bit of boxing in my young but I think you've forgotten there is more then one way to skin a cat. The key to becoming an Adult in my mind (male or female) is taken responsibility for yourself and your actions and even more importantly understanding that only you can make things happen. Fight training is a excellent way to do this but there are other ways just a valid.
Posted by Kenny, Tuesday, 29 November 2005 11:44:51 AM
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Yeah Dave I like where your coming from but you will get in trouble if you dont think along the lines of a total education. The root of the word education comes from Latin and means to bring forth.

I think the ancient subjects and disciplines of mathematics, philosophy, science and ethics would be necessary to "round" the person out
Posted by Jellyback, Tuesday, 29 November 2005 12:38:01 PM
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"I believe the crisis in our community is with boys. It is mostly boys who are doing drugs. It is boys who are doing the break and enters and rolls. It is boys who are getting into trouble with the law and boys who are committing suicide".

This is the crux of the issue in todays society. Another stat relevant is the percentage of boys who fail at school and who are the troublemakers.

Our society has no appropriate 'Rights of Passage' for boys. Certainly your process of a 'fight club' has merit, however it still relies on one boy 'beating' another. A win-loose situation.

I see the problem being alliviated by a community of men involved in boys 'education'.

I am a facilitator with a program called 'Pathways to Manhood'.(See http://www.pathwaysfoundation.com.au/) The aim of Pathways is to bring out the potential in young men and have them full of hope and inspiration as they look to the future. This is done in a caring community of men supported by women during a 5 day Camp where dads get together as a group, have some fun and do something special to honour the beginning of their son's journey into manhood.
Posted by Coyote, Tuesday, 29 November 2005 3:32:06 PM
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I agree with much of what you say, especially the need for boys to be accepted and mentored by older men. But I have a big problem with the use of violence (in boxing) as the proposed means. I don't doubt that you are achieving success with the groups of boys you deal with who, I presume, already have behavioural issues.

I have a 10 year old son, with whom I spend a lot of time. We are best friends, no doubt at all. I'm bringing him up to, amongst many other values, reject violence as anything other than a last resort to defend yourself. Not to say we don't have wrestling matches and push and shove etc.

Observing his friends (mostly middle class, white kids), I would say that the boys who have behavioural issues are often the ones whose fathers work long hours, travel on business, and are generally absent from the home (usually a choice they make to put career ahead of family). It is, I feel, these earlier years which are crucial. Those fathers will later wonder why they are not close to their teenage or adult sons, and by that stage its too late. They may have a big house, and big car but they'll have diminished father / son relationships.

Australia seems to be heading inexorably in a direction where work and material possessions are of primary importance. I predict that this means more and more men spending little time with their sons, and huge future social problems for Australia as a result.
Posted by AMSADL, Wednesday, 30 November 2005 10:25:07 AM
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Gotta bring home the bacon and that often means long punishing hours. If you have a family that are moderate eaters then the create opportunity to develop paternal bonds. If you have a house full of very hungry and downright insatiable dependents who more or less demand the fathers sacrifice to enable the family's material and consumer desires then you have a recipe for being kept out. Of course, not much of this happens in this age of emancipation.
Posted by trade215, Wednesday, 30 November 2005 11:29:32 AM
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