"terrorism is against Islam"

In your dreams, Amjid. On what planet do you live?

May I quote: "The military expeditions (Ghazawat, literally raid) in which the Messenger personally participated were twenty-six. Some say there were twenty-seven." Tabari IX:118 "The armies and raiding parties sent by the Messenger of Allah between the time he came to Medina and his death (ten years) was forty-eight." Tabari IX:115 (a Hadith). Go read about these attackes on villages and caravans. Mohammed and his gang were especially proud of the raids where they caught the victims by surprise. What do you think happened to these people, Amjid? Have you a clue? Maybe these people deserved torture, death, rape and captivity by the "Messenger of Allah". Are you proud of this? Where were the people like you to point out the fine print in the law to your dear prophet? How disgusting!

Nothing has changed, has it? Why not say it: Terror is the essence of Islam.

Here we have a Muslim who moves to the West and now is lecturing us on Human Rights. Why doesn't he take on his dear friends back in the home country (Pakistan)? Is he aware of the murders, rapes and oppression that happens there, perpetuated by his fellow Muslims on innocent victims.

The fact is western laws are trying to ajust to the new factor of Islamic terror. Our laws were made to judge people accused of crimes - a posteriori - after they happened. Until recently they did not really cover planning and preparing for criminal acts - a priori. This is why it is so hard to prosecute these people accused of planning terror. This makes it easy to make mistakes, and the Islamic extremists are using our laws and tolerance against us.

Yes they will get a fair trial, a lot better than anything in any Islamic country, and may I add a lot better that the two theives that were brutally tortured to death by Amjid's prophet (read verse 261):
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html.

Radical Muslims kill, moderates make excuses.

So it is.

Kactuz

Now, Kaktuz. What did the good doctor tell you about taking your pills on time?

“The verdict on the nine arrested in Melbourne has already been given. It wasn’t their plea, nor was it the conclusion of the judge, but it was the joint proclamation by elements of the government, authorities, the media and the public.”
As a dentist, Amjid Muhammad makes a lousy political and social commentator. He utters the usual platitudes about terrorism being against Islam (so why do others of his faith disagree with him – is there more than one Qu’ran?) and then he immediately criticises would be victims of those arrested and the security organizations who made the arrests possible.

His arrogant reminder to us that all are considered innocent until proved guilty is a real turn off.

He felt a sense of gloating by authorities after the arrests. Perhaps this is because of his and other Muslims’ denials that such people exist in their community could been proven wrong. He also uses the fact that a defence lawyer will say anything, no matter how ridiculous, on behalf of his clients. (Stary’s unfair trial comment) to further his specious argument against the integrity of our judicial system.

The public comments following the arrests are no different from comments made by people and media during any other cases of major interest. The people in question will receive a fair trial, as defendants always do in Australia. Public opinion or the media does not sway our courts.

The good dentist’s “paradigm of prevention” comments result from his “subjectivity”, the same fault he is levelling at his targets. Bringing up the old WMD anecdote, and his obvious opposition to Australia’s part in bringing down a vicious dictator is where he gets really boring and irrelevant.

Here is just another person more concerned with the “civil liberties” of terror suspects than he is with the well being and security of Australia. He and those of his ilk, Muslim and wet left non-Muslim alike, really brown me off.

"In times where most things are grey..."

There is nothing grey about people blowing themselves up, there is nothing grey about most terrorist acts being performed by muslims today, there is nothing grey about shooting back at police when apprehended, there is nothing grey about disrespecting the law of the land (oh sorry only when it is convenient of course).

Sorry you have no sympathy from me. You should stick to dentistry and let the law of the land that welcomed you take care of the law breakers.

Amjid's proposition is far from outrageous; it merely extends the presumption of innocence offered under our laws.

The vehemnce of the attack on his rather mild statements speak volumes about the states of mind this moemnt of history has given rise to.

These pages are full of latter day Koranic and Islamist history experts; they have scanned the web in search of quotes and examples that allow them to make far reaching generalisations from the particular - I guess we all do it to some degree.

Here we have a clear example of the wild west bushian philosophy of the : "if yer not with yer agin us" kind of thinking. Dangerous and lacking insight that only serves ot box its proponents into a defensive corner; one dimensional folly.

But there are none who hate so much as those who choose to hate. And it is as much the unrestrained hatred that oozes across these pages that represents a clear and present danger to the community as toxic as those who may or may not plot against us.

"What happened last week was more akin to a hunter showing off his catch. The swoop for the alleged (terrorists) and the parading of the trophy catches was publicised due to an apparent tip-off to the media"

I don't know about others, but i like it when the media shows me the suspected terrorists so that i can hurl abuse at the tv and get my daily dose of two minutes hate. It's really quite therapeutic to let it all out in a burst of rage and then go back to my menial desk job, calm and sedated. Thanks to the media for exposing members of this "underground network of conspirators" dedicated to the overthrow of our precious democracy and freedoms, and thanks for giving me a way to alleviate stress and ensure my mental health!

Amjid, extracting reason and logic out of your argument is as difficult as pulling teeth. You should stick to the latter where presumably you excel, as reason and logic is not your forte.

You show your true colours by your insinuating equation between Osama's terrorism and your fictitious WhiteHouse terrorism (or is it White "louse", which is rather a metaphor of an educared barbarian), while at the same time cleverly you appeal to anti-Americanism, so you can get its supporters jumping on your intellectually creaking bandwagon.

What would you prefer, to have had your "catch" snatched in the night with no publicity, like fascist states do? The "paradigm of prevention is "coined" by history, not by the US. All states in critical situations practiced it. Even the police have the legal right to shoot a would-be assasin on suspicion.

As for the war, what about the al Shifa facility in Sudan developing chemical weapons, and its links with Iraqi scientists and al Qaeda? You quote the "scribblings" of a lunatic Yemeni, as if the bombings of the fanatic terrorists are not the actions of lunatics.

Irfan's sarcastic remark to kactuz is revealing. "Moderate" Muslims forge their arguments by lies, vituperation, fabrication of history, and poverty of thought.

More on my Blog: http://congeorgekotzabasis.blogspot.com

Though I support the proposed anti terror laws I also support moderation on these arrests (like sneekepete and (I think?) Donnie).

Its interesting that the police/ASIO, no doubt with political permission, were allowed to leak a considerable amount of evidence on the arrests and on what was found (eg bomb chemicals and plans).

Information on these arrests would normally be covered by tight national security laws and conventions - but these were apparently lifted for political reasons.

How come we found out so much through "judicious" leaks to the Murdoch then (for balance?) the Fairfax media.

Where did the camera footage of police jogging in a line in the middle of the night come from? Lucky the press (or was it a police PR camera) were hanging around in the right suburban street at 2.30am.

Quite a tipoff! Nice resolute, action packed footage!

Plantagenet
http://gigolopete.blogspot.com/

Amjid,will the homegrown would be terrorist give their targets a fair chance? Or will they, like the brain washed ,brain dead ,suicide Zombies I saw on the ABC , just go for the kill?
And did the thugs who attacked the reporters the other night, give a fair chance to the poor sod before they put the boot in?
Sorry, no matter how much the muslims wail about how badly they are being treated, it will not wash because the cold blooded killers must be stopped.
Declare a stop to them, until you do, do not expect any sympathy from us.

It is one of the more interesting aspects of twenty-first century living that we so willingly allow ourselves to be led by the nose like this. What we saw in both the Sydney and Melbourne arrests was a carefully staged political stunt, designed to manipulate our responses in the most blatant and obvious Pavlovian manner. The majority of comments on this thread show how stunningly successful the exercise has been.

It is also clear that we are willing participants in this charade. Our political leaders know that we have absolutely no wish to think for ourselves any longer, but will instead happily adopt a meme that resonates most strongly with our self-image. They are supported by a sensationalist and blatantly commercial press, where the concept of "is it true, is it accurate?" gives way, oh-so-quickly, to "will it sell more newspapers?" The same rules are followed by our TV media barons, whose constant battle for ratings is characterized by a headlong dash to sleaze at the earliest opportunity.

What ever happened to dignity, thoughtfulness, tolerance and generosity? They have clearly given way to trash-talking, bigotry, inanity and intellectual slovenliness as the guiding precepts of our lives.

It isn't accidental that the preponderance of anti-Moslem comment on this thread reflects exactly the fear-your-own-shadow mentality that our government has chosen to instil into us. But it is still sad that so many people think it is necessary to demonstrate the shallowness of their own thought process, which chugs along at the level of the most vacuous of the daily rags.

Orwell got it right, no question.

Certainly Orwellian. Comments like most of those above are more frightening to me than terrorism.
I think Amjid has written a balanced and considered warning against pre-emptive judgement. A necessary caution in contemporary Oz, surely.
The fact that it's now normal to have a media inspired howling for humiliation or retribution whenever a story is beaten up doesn't make it even slightly sensible to follow that particular crowd.
Presumption of innocence should be paramount and premature ejaculators should spare our ears and eyes.
The fact that some of us find this type of murder especially horrible doesn't mean we should all take leave of our senses and disregard history. Terrorism has been a problem for centuries. Abuse of the traditional presumption of innocence in terror cases has led to execrable miscarriages of justice in the past. Hasn't it?
That's his simple message.
Why read all those personal prejudices into his piece?
And why all the insults and vituperation? It's a worry....

Yes, Orwell is my hero: The total cynic, the absolute pessimist. Orwell did it all, saw it all, from Spain to London to Berlin and Moscow. He was, in my opinion, the epidimy of cander and honesty.
How about "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." or "In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." Orwell made a lot of people unhappy, and I hope I do too. Like Orwell, at times I am ready to resign from the human race.

Sneekeepete said "These pages are full of latter day Koranic and Islamist history experts; they have scanned the web in search of quotes... " Not just in search of, but found - quite easily I may add. There are lots of them. They shouldn't be there, should they? after all it is, I hear, a "Religion of Peace"? Why can't our Muslim friends find these verses? What I try to do is make Muslims aware of things that I think are importatnt and may have some bearing on current events. You might even say that I promote "Islamic awareness" just like Islamonline, CAIR and other Muslim organizations. You would think they would be happy.

Anyway, regarding the trial of these accused. It is not easy to prove intentions, and they will (or should) get the benefit of the doubt. However, if it can be proven that they were buying and stockpiling dangerous materials, well - that should be enough. It appears that what Amjid really wants is a pile of dead bodies, and a signed confession - then maybe the authorities can arrest and prosecute these people.

Irf, I really don't know what to do with you. Just when I get ready to grab my sword and go out to do battle with you - you write that article in Altmuslim.com. So, I told this old man to lay off you for a few months. Anyway, thanks...

John

The doctrine of pre-emtion is a cancer that is already well established in the body politic. It was introduced and nurtured by the green/left. It is called the precautionary principle and it is already widely abused in the planning, natural resource management, environmental protection fileds. It sounds fine at a philosophical or policy level but in reality, on the ground, it is a very blunt instrument wielded by goons. In its broader sense it goes;

Where there are threats of serious or irreparable harm, the lack of absolute certainty of harm should not be used as an excuse for postponing measures to prevent harm.

The problem for any community in which such a principle is applied is that it is often interpreted as an excuse to act without the need to substantiate the case at all. And it is often applied in respect of minor and entirely repairable harm. People are condemned for what they might do (a thought crime) rather than for what they actually do.

The correct application of the principle requires it to be subordinated to;
1 A thorough examination of all relevant matters, and
2 A thorough investigation of all options to address the issue, and
3 A proportionate and cost effective response.

It is rather ironic that the main opponents of the use of this precautionary principle in the ousting of Sadaam are the very same green/left interests who devised the principle in the first place.

The big question for the Australian community is, given the demonstrated evidence of abuse of civil liberties under the principle that has already been provided under planning and resource management policy and legislation, can we trust the political and administrative elites to apply the principle properly elsewhere?

The lessons of Bundaberg and other Hospitals show that more Australians will be killed by criminally negligent bureaucrats than by bombers. Last count was Qld Health 89, Bombers Nil.

if a handful of people can 'overthrow' a democracy simply by discussing being violent, i wonder how robust that democracy is ...

as for needing laws to enable 'preemptive' action, the laws regarding of conspiracy have been around for a long time. one thing experience has taught us, trying to convict a person of 'considering a criminal act' is that it takes more than merely discussing something to cross the line into a real threat.

changing the law to make it easier to convict doesn't actually deter potential offenders. they tend to assume they won't get caught (for various reasons), and people who are prepared to perpetrate violence are not going to be dissuaded by the possibility of capture.

belief is a powerful motivator. making it easier to jump in early won't change people's beliefs. that can only be achieved by providing an environment where those people can air their grievances and discuss alternatives.

if we were to stop and look at history for a moment, it's not hard to recognise that violence begets violence, and violence comes in many forms. addressing the reasons why some people would choose to commit violence goes a long way to preventing it. adding fear to thier frustrations only catalyses their resolve.

dismissing the opinion of a member of any group is arrogant and insulting. we need to understand the various forms of islam, and reach out to the moslem communities. only through relationships can we hope to understand and address the causes of terrorism. it is also the best way to intervene before violence occurs.

lack of "human intelligence" was a significant factor in the failure of western intelligence regarding iraq. over reliance on technology, or any other source of data, reduces the reliability of conclusions drawn from it.

only by developing trust between authorities and the people can the authorities hope to serve their needs. and lets get this right. police and other authorities are there to serve *our* needs, not the other way around.

Mae

there is only one minor problem with your line of reasoning.

You say

1/ Find their grievances first, so they can discuss them and find alternatives.

2/ You also said "making it easier to jump in early will not change those beliefs.

3/ Then you said Violence begets violence.

4/ a) Understand various forms of Islam
b) Reach out to them.

The problem is as follows:

1/ The major 'grievance' is that Australia is not an "Islamic State"
2/ We discuss it which results in our position being stated as follows:

"We do not have any room whatsoever in Australia for an Islamic state"

They then realize that the only course to attaint their goals is: "violent overthrow of the state"

When they do so, (by gathering bomb making materials) it results in 'violence'.. ie..we raid them and arrest them before they can blow us up.

It is on the basis OF an understanding of Salafism/Wahabism that the actions were taken against a small group rather than the whole Muslim community.

We understood them, then we reached out to them with the long arm of the special operations unit and slapped them in solitary as fast as humanly possible.

Your comments might have had merit if all of the Muslim community was as Fellow Human or Irfan are, but sadly, many are not like that and it behoves us to track their sorry asses down and dump on them with as much force as needed to absolutely CRUSH them.

I was thinking your post emanated from the 'Don't use violence to resolve disputes' school of Dimmitude and national suicide :)

So, I'll make an appointment for you with 'REALIST' for some much needed counselling :) (note smiley)

Well some explained the motives of the left; just think back 30 odd years ago, back in the days when Multiculturalism and Diversity did not exist. Back when people were hard working and discipline existed, so did respect. Some people have forgotten Australia existed long before they were born, we have today: Thanks to our ancestors, not Multi-destructuralism or Socialism. Now idiotic pathological talk about Bush, Blair, Howard world imperialism, Fairdinkum, some people need to get a serious grip on reality, if they do not then someone will.
You aint seen nothing yet: wait for a few more years when everything you see around you today is gone and that has well and truly began. That’s realism not racism.Google that.

Such a peaceful religion, Islam!

I hope everyone in Australia gets a fair trial. These guys included.
But even more so, I hope that Islamic teaching is critiqued - thoroughly.

And I hope we stop repeating ad-nauseum the idea that "all religions" are the same, or basically harmless, or private. Thinking this way, is the illusion, and self-deceptive creed of those who imagine it is possible to just soak in a warm tub of multi-faith, multi-cultural idealism, because we have nice beaches, beer and sunshine.

It is sheer wishful idealism to think that Islam can just be a private, inner, mind-your-own-business Islam.

The average Aussie may just have to sit and answer the questions like: 'What is Islam?' and the question the Prince of Peace puts to us all: 'Who do you say that I am?'

It is a common debating tactic for people who wish to hide their self interest, or to promote a cause which they know is unpopular, to pretend to support a motherhood subject which they then try to indirectly link with their real objective. The key to making this approach work is to studiously avoid openly mentioning your real sympathies and instead wax long and lyrical on the moral merits of your cover argument.

Amjid Mohammad appears to be only concerned with the rights of the accused terrorists to a fair trial. But while claiming it is just awful for the media to pre judge the defendants as terrorists, he then gives his real position away by pre judging President Bush as a terrorist. So prejudging alleged Muslim Jihadi’s as terrorists is bad, but prejudging infidel leaders as terrorists is good. Uh huh.

Now we keep hearing about how “moderate” Muslims are aghast at the behaviour of extremists, and that they do not support them at all. But logically, Mr Mohammad should be very happy that 18 alleged terrorists have been apprehended before they might have committed an outrage which would have greatly increased hostility towards his co religionists. But here he is thinking up silly conspiracy theories which once again portray all Muslims as the victims of Western perfidy.

To summarise, there is nothing in Mr Mohammad’s article which changes my mind about “moderate muslims” being little more than a figment of somebodies imagination. My perception is that Osama and his merry men are heroes to the whole Islamic world, and any son of Islam who imitates Osama is a blessed Jihadi fighting for Islam against the infidels. In my opinion, the reason there are so many articles by Muslims indirectly sneering at Westerners and criticising our efforts to win the War on Terror, is because all Muslims support the terrorists.

As a seemingly responsible person I have bothered to try and do some home work on the origins of Islam and why it is so violent. I do this because a member of my family decided to marry into a delightful Islamic family. My h/w disturbs me greatly. It is not just the material presented in blogs such as this, but web references such as this one
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/WhytheViolence.htm.

In addition the hot seller in the USA at the moment is Robert Spences book on "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades", which I have also bought and read.
It is deeply distrubing stuff because one realises that it is almost impossible for Islam to correct itself and bring itself into line with modern wisdoms and thought.In addition there are no signs at all that Islamis organisations are capable organising anything of note.(Particularly when the supposed world leaders like Mahathir refer to jewish people as monkeys.)

Whilst at the individual level and whilst living in a liberal western democracy the extreme elements of Islam are moderated one cannot say the same about the remaining one billion who do not live in free and democratic systems. In fact of the 10 least free countries in the world 7 are predominantly Islamic.
There is a long road of nothing but trouble ahead.Kaktuz is right

What if six or seven of the 18 are real terrorists and the rest are just guys that the terrorists met for dinner a couple times?

Do we want to be the country that shoves everybody in jail and calls everybody a terrorist before they have a fair trial. Why can't we wait for the trial and then parade the guilty ones around and say hooray we caught the bad guys and our system works.

Should everybody who ever had dinner with the executives of James Hardie get thrown in jail because they didn't protect people against asbestosis. Should everybody who worked at HIH be paraded in front of the news cameras as a cheat and fraudster who robbed innocent pensioners of their life savings?

Lets just wait for the trial.

ericc, the Bali muslims who killed so many Australians have had a trial,where are they today?
Do we wait until many more innocent folk are blown to pieces before stopping the terrorists or would be terrorists in their tracks.
Are you willing to gamble your loved one's lives on "fairness"?

mickijo -

Are you saying that you know for certain that all 18 people arrested last week are guilty? Do you really care if they are guilty? Is your solution to terrorism in Australia to just throw all the muslims out? How would you have prevented the Bali bombings, by throwing all the muslims in Bali out of Bali?

I would much prefer to live in a society which has trials and evidence is presented and unbiased people stand in judgement over whether a person has committed a crime, than live in a society where there are no fair trials.

If that is what you mean by 'gambling my loved one's lives on fairness', then the answer is yes, I would rather live in a fair society than one in which there is no justice system? More people suffered under Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot than under systems of government that have "fair" justice systems.

I can not pretend, you can not play Marcos of Queensbury Law against an enemy that has no law other than your destruction. Islamic or Socialist’s of all types.
To be frank, ASIO and AFP perhaps more so now, SAS should be engaging in full scale Military operations within our occupied borders. You seem not to understand that there are a great many Moslems in Australia that would not hesitate to slit your throat or bash your head in with a bat or construct an even more sinister demise for us Infidels, (Dissidents) without hesitation, and threaten our policemen and women then shoot up the station. Don’t know what planet Ericc you revolve around but make some more room, we are on the way: I like your world as it sounds like Australia of many years gone by: it sounds better than the one our Elites have created now-days. The Looters have control and the only social justice any will get is the notion you still breath, how long for will depend on how fast people wake up. We are at war with greater Ideological Foe: than ever before in the History of man. This war is a combination of Leftism and Islam . Both have joined forces to conquer the west so you can live in a cave once more.If you are lucky.

thanks all-. that was the funniest thing i've read in ages.

Lets be clear about this. Religions of all persuasions have gone out to murder people who were not of their faith. Enslaved those who were concurred.
We now have a legal system that is in an utter mess, where even Australians are detained in concentration camp styled Commonwealth Detention Centres with a denial of access to a lawyer, and unconstitutionally/illegally deported.

I for one have no problem to have deported as quick and possible those who abuse or misuse the refugee system, but we must ensure that in the process we do not rob people of their rights.
Detaining and deporting Australians without DUE PROCESS OF LAW isn’t going to advance us a bit in our desire to protect ourselves, rather make it worse.

We no longer have the notion of INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY or the right of silence and indeed we now have that the ACCUSED IS guilty as charged UNLESS HE CAN PROVE TO BE INNOCENT.

Today, many may consider this acceptable because it suits them to get rid of those they feel have no right to be in Australia, but they ought to remember that once the undesirable are gone, the laws and the police state will remain. We then in turn might become undesirable to others, and we may just receiving the same treatment we accepted to be bestowed upon others.

I am sick and tired of this Muslim/Arab bashing because it clouds the real issues.

Previously it was the communist bashing and what happened to them? Then the Parliament was stopped in its draconic legislation, but now we find we lack the credibility in the Courts to do the same.

I have no problem with our police force to enforce the law, but I do have a problem where the “TERRORISM” ploy is used to rob every ordinary Australian bit by bit of their legal rights, that the police merely have to pretend some terrorist intelligence as a way to bash down once front door and bail up even small children with loaded guns.

What we have is a POLICE STATE.

What a mess ,we have George Dubwua who has the problem ten times worse,Muslims in denial who refuse to intergate with other cultures.Amjid who casting doubts about fair trials in a western country where the lawyers can get you off on the slightest of techicalities.Imagine a Christian being accused of terrorism in Saudi Arabia.Would they bother with a trial before stoning you to death?

When are Muslims in this country going to become apart of the general community displaying their joy to be here,instead of side stepping issues and continually claiming victim status?

If more Muslims were positively vocal,displaying not only their love of the Australian culture but also their desire to be a part of it,they would not feel so alienated.

All we hear is excuses and reasons for Muslim's inability to face a hateful cancer that has grown from sections of their religion.

The more Muslims side step the issue,the more suspicious it makes the rest of society.This is just another article that alludes to victim status.

>>What we have is a POLICE STATE<<

Gerrit, which part of this do you have a problem with? After all, we trust Mr Howard to have our best interests at heart, don't we?

Don't be such a softy-lefty-multi-culti-wishy-washy liberal. Mr Howard is only doing his job, making laws that protect us all from those who wish to undermine the Australian way of life by killing us all. Why would you object to that?

I know, I know, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. It's a tough job, but someone has to do it.

using the tactics that didn't work when directed against minorities in the past seems to me to be a pointless regression.

making every muslim in australia fearful of authorities will not assist the authorities in their work. our government needs to build trust with, and to be seen to be trustworthy to, the communities who can assist them. hell, that ought to be true of government with regard to the population in general.

i'm *not* saying that a quick chat over a cuppa will dissuade some one who is disaffected; but chatting with their neighbours - or people who have chatted with a person who might - *does* help.

we cannot expect intelligence agencies to accurately assess risks if they do not have reliable intelligence to assess. a great deal of intelligence comes from the very community wherein the "persons of interest" reside.

many criminals are apprehended because police were told things that helped them to narrow down who, among the many potential suspects, they ought to focus their efforts upon.

if people are fearful, they begin to act differently. we ought not be exacerbating an already difficult task. the "be alert, not alarmed" campaign was a good idea badly executed. more power is not the solution *of itself*.

it may occur to you that perhaps i am speaking from more than a merely 'academic' understanding of the issues here. i am concerned not only about the _means_ proposed, but also the _implications_ that people are drawing from the way this whole issue is being managed.

The problem we are facing is that the very people needed to provide the “intelligence”, meaning ordinary citizens, are now deterred by the legislation put in place, as if they were to say anything, then they can be imprisoned as a “person of interest” who might know something.

The more laws we have the worse it gets. Not for the would be terrorist, but for the intended victims, as they are suffering under all kinds of legislative provisions, and the “terrorist” has achieved its goal without needing to do anything, because of an over zealous government that dictates the parliament.

The likelihood of being killed by a bus then by a terrorist attack is considerable higher, and if we were to implement all kids of security laws against buses, planes, other motor vehicles, and why not also push bikes and go-carts, and even horses and cows, etc, then how do we live?

Most people know that magpies during breeding season can be quite dangerous to deal with, as they aim for your head, etc.
So, my wife found the perfect solution. Let them eat out of your hand and they respect you. So, morning, day and evening they knock on the security door announcing they are there to have some cheese, oats, etc, during breeding times, they do the same. We have no worries about them, as they follow us around the garden.

Perhaps, that is the clue. Do not fear terrorist but try to overcome your fear and then see how you can have them, so to say, eat out of your hand and they will not attack you.

For example, try to understand what drives them to commit acts of terrorism. Then see what we as a nation can do as to try to combat any injustice that might be a cause of terrorism.

Would be terrorist are not bound by race/religion/nationality, colour of skin etc. therefore do not crucify a particular race/religion

Mr. Schorel-Hlavka,

Rarely do I have to use words like this, but you are an idiot.

It may be news to you but there are rules enacted to regulate where buses can go or not go. They are called "traffic laws".

Feed the terorists and/or birds, understand them and they will be nice to you, hum? Gee, that really worked well for Chamberlain back in 1938, didn't it!

I am sure it will also work for you when they are killing your children and raping your wife.

"Sir, would you please care to share with me the reasons for your hostility as you rip my wife's dress off? Please tell me about the horrible injustices done to you as you cut my child's throat..."

Pathetic!

Kactuz

Oh yes they will get a very fair trial, Australia rail roads no one.
But after the trial the [sorry but its true] lies will begine.
Lies are a tool just as much as an ak47 and used just as much.
While a chance my post will be editored exists its the view of most Aussies that lies are used by a very few too often in this debate.
Cry wolf but remember that storys end.