Method 3: Cosmopolitan. The teacher recognises that every culture has both good & bad points. If it's a History or Religious Education class then those points can be raised & examined. I've had Aussie kids tell me there are some aspects of ancient Greek culture they'd love to see adopted again. There are others that they are glad is in the dustbin of history. That's the Cosmopolitan way.

Bosk, not much choice for me in the school stakes but that is another thread. I raised the issue to illustrate my concerns with the mix of religious training and general schooling. I guess I let my pain creep in a bit much - sorry about that.

I can see some merit in David's point 2 but would prefer a version which recognises that we have different cultures even within those born here of european origins.

We have a guy at work who insists on ending phone conversations with a "God bless you". Mostly we laugh about it but it also represents a lack of respect for the differing views some of us hold. I wonder what the reaction would be to my routinely ending conversations with a comment which reflected by beliefs about the christian god. Not good I expect. Monoculture is not our reality, what we generally refer to as multiculturalism is just widening the boundaries not bringing a new thing to our society.

The state school suggestion (apart from my concerns about further govt involvement) still has to deal with the tendancy of kids to stick together with kids like them. How do we get kids to interact meaningfully in the school environment?

R0bert

What an arrogant load of toss.

QUOTE: "it does require them to acknowledge that particular religious beliefs not shared by the majority cannot determine their policies."

The majority shove their views down my throat every day of the week. Its hardly likely that any minority is going to determine public policy in a democracy unless the majority concede on the relevant policy point. Of course the minority must acknowledge that the majority will push them around at whim. Just as short timid people must acknowledge that big aggressive people can probably kick their ass in a fight. That does not mean any of us should like the fact. Thats one of the conceited aspects of democracy. The notion that just because the majority can push us around that their might suddenly makes them right.

As an earlier comment suggested primary schools should be owned and operated by the community, not by the government. It is an unfortunate fact of life that too many people can't tell the difference between governments (founded on force) and communities (founded on good will). Something in their mental facilty has malfunctioned

“But diversity becomes another word for social fragmentation when it produces active resistance to the values of the broader society” <== THIS is so spot on !

Robert, I concur about the ‘other cultures’ within those born here of European Origins. That does not exclude a fairly broad based concept of ‘Australian Identity’. I guess thats why I keep harking back to the ‘Judao Christian’ rather than referring to race which is less inclusive. The peck order as I would see it is a broad based Anglo European circle, with the Anglo/Irish/Scottish as the ranking flavor (for historical not racial reasons) which then encompasses the rest.

The places where ‘culture’ is most visible is in rites of passage. Birth, Marraige and Death. I’m afraid I don’t really share the idea that our health proffessionals must know all cultures in regard to death. It puts an unfair strain on them. Rites of passage should be explained to would be migrants so the KNOW what to expect before coming here, and avoid exemplifying my opening quote from the article.

Classic examples are: (With conflicting practices in brackets)

-BIRTH no female genital mutilation. ( Muslim (but not Islamic) practice)

-MARRAIGE no forced marraiges, no honor killings. (Some Asian practice)

-DEATH no ‘unlawful’ methods of burial allowed (shrouds as opposed to coffins, no time pressure on when the dead must be buried.) (Islamic practice)

To give on one cultural point opens the door to the rest , ‘4 wives, cutting off hands’ etc.

Terje, I feel rather saddened over your comment about the ‘majority RAMMING stuff down your throat each day. That type of attitude should be addressed in civics classes to avoid it, and “cultural superiority bullying” should be made an offense. You're not starting it r u ?

They should also target working together in building a better atmosphere, but those who don’t share our predominant cultural heritage should NEVER say “Well thats not ‘MINE’ so get lost” .. my point is it should never be ‘us/them’. Newcomers have to recognize our situation and graciously accept it.
Its called good manners :)

D-B,
I appreciate your intelligent input into forum topics, and on this topic you have expressed clearly the failures within the thinking of those wishing to accommodate multiculturalism in one classroom.

On Public education compare the fallacy by some who assume, [Quote] "Public schools are a source of public good, that means they do something that is of benefit to everyone (i.e. compulsory education for all kids), private schools, by and large, are for private good, that means they do things that primarily benefit those who purchase their services. Which would your community schools be? The former, hopefully." Posted by enaj

It is this a typical emotive view that only Public Schools operate for the public good; that continues the myth that Private Schools act against the best interests of a coherent Australia. My sister trained and taught in the Public School system for years before becoming the Principal of several Christian Schools. Her present school has over 600 students in Primary with a large waiting list of children wanting enrolment. Do we assume these parents are acting against the best interests of Australia and its cultural cohesion?

No! They are exercising their democratic right of choice, which is the basis of Australian culture.

Just wondering - regarding children's education - why anyone would listen to a homosexual activist who believes pederasty (male paedophilia) is among the "safest" of stigmatized forms of gay sexuality, one that "often amounts to no more than acts of mutual masturbation."?
- Dennis Altman, "AIDS in the Mind of America", New York: Doubleday, 1986) p. 144.

Fundamentalism as a concept means going back to fundamentals of one's religion. Their is a huge cavan between the effects of Christian fundamentalism and the effects of other fundamentalisms.

When Muslims take their faith seriously they fly planes into buildings, blow up nightclubs, buses and trains, and rape girls because they "dress like whores".

When Bhuddists take their faith seriously they live in a Monastry, deny themselves and chant.

When Hindus take their faith seriously they ignore the poor and injustices because its their khama.

When Christians take their faith seriously, they obey law, treat people with respect/dignity, help people, build communities and schools.

Maybe Dennis should advocate sending kids only to Christian schools?

FlipTop said: "It seems to me that Dennis Altman wants Australia to continue to be a secular society, and his method for ensuring this is to force children to attend state schools where they can’t have religion rammed down their throats."

You're right about Altman wanting Australia to remain secular society but wrong about him not wanting religion rammed down their throats. Altman want all kids in state schools so the state can control the curriculum, and this means ramming the religion of "Secular Humanism" down kid's throats.

[Deleter for probable defamation].