The alchemist,
You state you are a nonbeliever, then go on to explain the basis of your belief. If you class yourself as a believer in "dimensionalist evolution" I would think that if any one who vilifies you as a person to incite violence against you for your belief you could bring a case against them in Victoria as an unbeliever in your religion / idiology. You do not have to be identified as a believer in a God. Buddahists do not believe in deity. Howeve you might need to register your world view to have it recognised. However I see the removal of the right to criticize as dangerous, because I know you are good at it, and I do not wish to have you silenced just because you do not agree with me.

Quote, "Philo, confused again, nonbeliever vilification does not refer to us being charged, it relates to us being unable to bring charges against the religious for them vilifying us. I am a dimensionalist, we see us as a part of an ever changing and evolving universe. A universe that has many different dimensions that intermingle with our own. For us what's important is to open the door between this 3th dimension and the 4th. Once we open it, we may see where our destiny is leading. As some of us have come to this understanding, we may be able to take our consciousness with us on the next step in our evolutionary path."

Since we are not as advanced in our evolving then please make no derogatory comparisons with past human failures of religions, they were closer related to inferior species - not as evolved. Since you are so much further along in the evolutionary tree and have evolved into a superior society with superior intelligence; I was wondering can you let us into view this superior social structure so we can droole with envy at your advanced society, us religious beings so inferior holding hope in a superior afterlife.

I reiterate my previous post >>A lot of Muslims must be feeling sad, angry and defensive right now. Perhaps it is time to stop with the criticism and start with the co-operation and respect for one another.<<

It would progressive and heartening if we collectively could extend the hand of friendship to our Muslim people in this horrific time where their religion has been poisoned and hijacked by the lunatic fringe.

It would behove our christian people to desist from the mud slinging (as I and others have demonstrated it is not pleasant to have your belief system derided) and offer compassion and solidarity in an effort to defeat the terrorists.

Failure to help each other means the terrorists have won.

A little less smugness and a little more humility would go a long way towards defeating the terrorists among us.

Sorry philo, confused again, dimensionalist evolution is not a belief, but theoretical science. If it turns out to be the right theory, then we go with it, it if turns out to be the wrong theory, then we change our direction. This is how science has evolved, we understand there are dimensions that we can work within, if we find the right approach (nano technology, quantum mechanics). That is not a belief, but an evolving science. Xena cries for understanding, as do others from all persuasions, but in practise, there are no real attempts at healing the rifts between each legendary fantasy. It is not the belief that is wrong, but the implementation of that belief. All religions stand in the same room, they are just looking at different parts of it and refuse to see that the room contains many different things and not just what they can or want to see. If you put 3 people in a room facing each other, then asked them to tell what they see before them, each would give a different view of the room. This means that everyone is right from their own point of view, but they are not right when it comes to the actual reality of what is in the room. The religious only wish to see one part of the room, their own and they don't give a hoot about what anyone else may see. So we have the situation of the religious looking at each other, screaming, you must see what I see, but I mustn't see what you see, for I can't be wrong. Sad to have such tunnel vision and miss out on so much more of life, because of the entrenched fear of difference. Personally, for philo, my approach to life has enabled me to spend the last 30 years without illness, colds or viral infections and with a body that belies its years. It has also shown me that passive resistance assists in the humble understanding of life and the universe, along with a good laugh at oneself, which helps enormously.

Achemist

Conur with your last post. The room analogy is good - one could also use the blind men and the elephant.

Just one request, please use paragraphs, would make your posts easier to read. Also a good way to define a particular point without resorting to capitals.

Interesting how the CC's (Conservative Christians) can't see the connection between posts vilifying their religion and their negative rant on Islam. Seems it is OK to pick sections out of the Koran (which is based on the bible) to prove how 'bad' muslims are. But when I or others do it to them on comes the theological argument.

My point with the posts about Christian Identity and so on was simply to show that all religions have their bad side. And again I say that it is not going to end terrorism by ranting about how bad Islam may be. I disagree with much of Islam as well, but I do not believe it is progressive to write a lot of hate filled posts about it. I have clearly demonstrated the futility of a negative christian rant - just gets everyone defensive doesn't it?

It is like trying to communicate with concrete - does being religious mean being losing the ability for critical thinking?

I reject any religious doctrine that does not appeal to reason and is in conflict with morality.
Mohandas Gandhi

Xena, have you considered that it might be your own dislike of Christianity, even, dare I say it, hatred towards those of us who wish to be identified as Christians that drives you in your criticism of us?

I don’t know to what extent you understand dar al Islam and dar al harb teaching of Islam or the subjugation of minority Christian and Jewish populations in the Muslim world as dhimmis (try googling dhimmi and dhimmitude). Christians tend to be aware of the history of their relations with Islam. By the end of the 4th century, North Africa and the Middle East were largely Christian, but all that changed with the rise of Islam in the 7th and 8th century and the conquest and forced conversion of these largely Christian lands. As late as 1453 or thereabouts, the Muslims were hammering at Vienna’s doors.

Christians are simply concerned that there should not be a repetition of these things today. Recent events demonstrate that there are at least some Muslims who would not only like Australia (or Europe) to become a Muslim nation (as all Muslims wish, just as all Christians wish Australia to be a Christian nation) but are prepared to use extreme measures to achieve that goal.

You and I may agree this is all unlikely, certainly in our lifetime, but it is good to understand these things and to be vigilant.

As for Johnny Rotten, you are extremely presumptuous to suggest that reason is not involved in (Christian) doctrine or that (Christian) doctrine is in conflict with morality. I cannot imagine a higher form of morality than that taught by Jesus Christ, can you? I suggest the difference between us is that the religious do not deny the supernatural which to us is an entirely reasonable thing, forming part of our identity. St Augustine once said that “the human soul is restless until it finds its rest in God”. This has accorded well with the experience of millions down through the centuries of time and a few stroppy aggravated and aggravating atheists are not about to overturn that.