David,

The CTF event was not an introduction to others faith as they see it. The speaker context, was ‘muslims are lost in the forest and you need to find out how far arre they lost so you can ‘help’ them (ie convert them), and then went on with twisting and selective couple of words from here half a verse from there to make his cocktail for the faithful to go out there and ‘save’ muslims.
Now, when my 8 y.o. daughter ask me about Christians and I do have many friends, I explain to her that we share monotheism; belief in Jesus and also explain why they are different with no judgment from our side since only god will judge all of us for our deeds.

Now, imagine if any imam will preach that Christians are lost souls and we need to save them from their beliefs in Trinity, Jesus divinity, etc…what the world will look like?
The poisonous seed of the CTF resulted in 20,000 Christians or more are out there with a ‘clichet’ picture of any Muslims they will meet and likely to offend and question his teachings or, find out that the priests/ pastors mislead them and lose respect to the church (like what happened in Sydney last month).

Muslims understand well that for Christians to accept Islam as a religion means that it will shift the pressure of the theological dialogue on Christian beliefs on the character of Jesus in both religions (church, hierarchy, origin of sin and the Trinity).

It is difficult to ask Christians not to see us as the ‘other’, but we should find a way to respect each other beliefs. Maybe there is room for pastors and Imams to sit together and work out a plan.
AK

Ash :) there is no hate ball in me mate. There is a passion, yes.
I'll address your other comments in the other thread ('enmity') but I've 8 hrs b4 it will let me post again. I'll tackle your suggestion that I have a double standard of 'context' :) but beware, will give a very detailed account as best I can.

The CTF seminar, was not to teach people 'about Islam from the point of view that say the ICV would have us believe on their web site. It was to show the OTHER side which they DON'T speak about, but which is nevertheless very real 'Islam'.

The news today reported on the jailing for life of Sheikh Al Tamimi in the USA for the 'words' he spoke, soliciting young men to fight for the Taliban. The interesting part of this story to me is that he was reported as saying

"I do not recognize secular authority and will not seek the mercy of the court".

Which rather fits like a glove with "The world and all in it belongs to Allah and his MESSENGER"

But anyway, Ash, I'm busy putting up a ceiling and some walls now, catch you on the other thread :)
Have a nice day and weekend.

I wonder, will some Muslims try to use the vilification act to silence other Muslims? Many Muslims would like to silence the following group http://secularislam.org/

If Muslims really want religious vilification why do they not lobby for it in Islamic countries? It seems to me that there are two faces to Islam. http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Wood/two_faces.htm

In many Muslim countries non-Muslims do not have freedom of speech, they have to pay more tax, have less rights in a court of law etc. I have an Egyptian friend who is not a Muslim. I asked her what is it like living in a Muslim country as a non-Muslim? She said "we are supposed to have equality but we know that we will never be able to hold many of the jobs Muslims can hold". I said to her, "Do moderate Muslims ever speak up for you?” She said, "yes, but they are killed by the extremists".

A religious vilification law suits those who would like to silence others.

I do hope that a time will come where there is freedom of religion in Islamic countries and letters like the following do not have to be written. http://www.answering-islam.org/openletter_df.html

For those who like to research an issue before they comment on it I recommend the following.

1. Read the Quran (The Muslim Students Association (MSA) of the University of Southern California have been kind enough to put it on-line http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/ and while you are there take a look at Sura 5:33, 4:95 and 2:216)

2. Take a look at the Hadith (Islamic traditions), The MSA have been kind enough to put this on-line also http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/ here’s an index if you have trouble www.answering-islam.org/Silas/indexintro.htm you might want to start with the following Hadith Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 387

3. Read one of the early biographies about Mohammed (modern biographies cater to western sensibilities, the early biographies are not concerned with how they make infidels feel)

4. Read the letters Mohammed wrote (here is one of them www.answering-islam.org/Muhammad/oman.htm )

as usual, no one is addressing the real legal and policy issues behind the legislation. instead, we are getting into a slanging match about how nasty islam is and how all muslims are conspiring with all jews (at least they can agree on one thing!) to destroy christian free speech.

can someone please advise me in what way the wording of the legislation is in any way more onerous than tests applied in current defamation laws and anti-discrimination legislation? and when will opponents of the Act realise that their arguments could be used to repeal any legislation?

has anyone here actually bothered to study and understand the common law system and how judge-made law is developed? or is it just a heathen foreigner like me the only one who can understand and articulate australian law?

Martin Luther King said an unjust law is no law at all. He said we must be willing to disobey unjust laws, but if we do we must be prepared to receive the punishment which comes with breaking that law. By doing that it ought to prick peoples consciences which hopefully brings about reform. Daniel is a hero.

I have attended one of Daniels seminars before Sept 11. He told us to love Muslims. He has had many Muslims over to his house for dinner. Daniel referred to some verses which extremists use which they claim Allah commands. See Surah 5:33, 4:95, 9:5, 2:216 in the Muslim Students Associations of the University of Southern Californias website http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

Referring to these verses gives me a sour taste in my mouth. I wish they weren't there. I wish Mohammed never wrote some of the things he wrote, I wish he never said or did some of the things he did. But as an adult I have to face the truth no matter how uncomfortable it may make me feel.

These laws are a result of how immature our society has become.

The terrorists do what they do because they believe that is what Allah commands. That might offend some people but that is what they believe. They arrive at that conclusion by studying the Quran, Hadith, Mohammed’s letters and the early biographies about him. (Isn't it odd that where they are most familiar with the Quran that they have the most trouble with Islamic terrorism?)

Dispite all that Daniel points to he says we should love Muslims anyway.

As a Christian I support the atheists right to criticize what I believe no matter how offensive and I should also have the right to criticize what he believes. We are grown ups right? We can take it.

For those who think all the prophets are the same. Take a look at this. http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Roark/prophets.htm

The following may also prove helpful.

Islam and Science: Religious Orthodoxy and the Battle for Rationality by Pervez A. Hoodbhoy (Written by a Muslim professor and scientist)

Dear Irfan

I appreciate all of the articles that you write on this Forum.

I guess you must be feeling very sad - sad that so many posters seem filled with hatred and anger against Islam/Muslim - and sad that your articles seem to bring out so much Islam/Muslim stereotyping.

I was reared with Christian values - one of which is to respect the views of other people - even if I do not agree with their stand. As a Protestant I was not reared to hate people of Roman Catholic faith - on the contrary - I was reared to respect that they had a different way of believing.

It's really interesting that Islam is about Peace - yet so many posters to your articles seem to want to defame others - especially the so-called Christian posters. In the main, their posts are not peaceful.

Anyone who is a decent and fair minded Aussie must know that terrorism is not about Muslim faith.

It's easy to tell people who are angry. Their use of upper case if over the top and smells of aggression.

Cheer up - there are some of us who have an open mind with regard to other peoples' religions and cultures.