Reason, another point :) its a 'legal' one. The legislation does not cover the class of people you mentioned, for villification to have occurred, specific targets have to have been mentioned. "Muslims" "Christians" "Buddhists"

"Unbelievers" is too broad - in any case it is not a 'religion' (for the purposes of the Act)

To be fair also, the Bible contains a lot of material in regard to unbelievers, but lets not forget, generally it refers to them as lost sheep, whom the good shepherd is continually searching for.

Those who are condemned are 'haters' of God, who a) Know God is real, but b) knowingly and willfully hate/rebel/oppose him.

"18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. (from Romans 1)

Do you see the word 'supress' ? Do you see 'Wickedness' ? They know God, but supress the truth about Him and willfully persue a life of wickedness and debauchery etc. Are they judged in this life ? nope, but one day 'the wages' of sin will have their payday, when Christ returns.

It is our task to proclaim the Love of God, His invitation to restoration of fellowship with Him through Christ and also the justice of God, it is not our job to physically attack people who we don't agree with in His name , nor is it our calling to 'legislate' faith.

keep up the interesting interaction.

Reason, you can't discuss religion with either side, the only reasonable answers are from non believers. Religion is a brain disease, saying one thing then doing the opposite. Both sides constantly repeat the same old lines over and over. This is a psychological illness, caused by an inability to understand reality. They try to cover up this disease by attempts at total control. It is okay to class their opposition and non believers as being the problem, can't see, that all religions have responsibility for religious violence in the world. Both sides constantly fail to address questions about their aims and methods. They can only quote their scripture, because they are inadequate when it comes to reason. Australia is one of the only countries left that isn't under full onslaught by the religious. That is rapidly changing as can be seen by both sides upping the stakes, forcing confrontation between the varying religions. Naturally the denials will come thick and fast, this is standard practice for the addicted unwell. Look at the history of religion, it is overflowing with violent and destructive acts. I doubt that you could find a time within the last thousand years, where there hasn't been any violent religious confrontation. I would still like either side to explain what religion has brought to this planet, that has been of benefit to its progress. Oops almost said evolution, but that may be deemed vilification or blasphemy, we can't have that, by their actions throughout the world, we can see how intolerant all religions are. One definition of brain disease, is the afflicted can't maintain rationality when faced with reality. Religions will not admit to their failings or agenda. Their approach, denial, confrontation, abuse, then violence, even against their own. It is the nature and course of their disease. Why do non beleivers become involved in these debates, they want to understand the disease, so that they may help find a cure or vasccine for it and relieve the world of its destructive effects

BD,

You have an interesting ‘am not listening! Am not listening!’ attitude my friend.

1. The criticism in the Quran cannot be a vilification because it balances the criticism with love and rewards for good Jews and good Christians. Vilification is if someone says “All Jews” or ‘All Christians” are not good. This is not the case in the Quran at all but of course you knew that:):)
2. The Quran described Christians in general in very affectionate terms “The kind hearted, followers of Jesus” “Jesus followers have kindness and mercy in their hearts”, “If you trust them they will live up to their promises” etc..The only criticism that you are talking about is blurring the first commandment “God is One” with the Trinity doctrine.
3. The criticism you are referring to in the Quran mostly by Jesus (Note his quote on the commandments in the Quran is almost identical to the Bible). The Quran criticizes anyone who compromises on the first commandment (same as the bible and the Torah).

As a muslim, I know that:
- In Jewish teachings only Jews are God’s people (race) and only Jews will go to heaven.
- In Christian teachings only those who accept the Trinity doctrine, church, original sin will be forgiven .

Now, I couldn’t care less beacuse my beliefs make natural sense to me. Muslims are not running around asking other religions to accept them or change their scripture to include them.

If you really believe Islam have no divinity at all as you said, then you should be even more relaxed than I am.

AK

Dear Fellow Human,

Two points in respect of your last post.

You choose to say that "In Christian teachings only those who accept the Trinity doctrine, church, original sin will be forgiven".

As I Christian I can say we never, ever, put it this way.

We choose rather to quote texts from the New Testament

Typical texts include the following:

"Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit". Acts 2:38

"All the prophets testify about him (Jesus Christ) that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name". Acts 10:43

“In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace” Eph 1:7

In other words, in Christian understanding, forgiveness comes about through repentance and faith, faith in Jesus Christ that through his sin atoning death upon the cross we find the forgiveness of God.

The doctrines of the Trinity, Church, original sin, etc are teachings drawn from the Bible concerning the nature of God and man.

Salvation (forgiveness with God) however is a matter of believing in Jesus, committing your life to him, recognising that on the cross he became the sin bearer.

In another text, Jesus himself said “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me”. John 14:6

Dear Fellow Human,

On another point you claim: “Muslims are not running around asking other religions to accept them or change their scripture to include them.”

What Muslims are running about doing (or would like to do) is extending dar al Islam to replace dar al harb including in Australia.

And sure, Muslims might not ask us to change our religion but they will treat us as dhimmis, subjecting us to all kinds of humiliation and degradation – just ask the Copts in Egypt what it is like to live as second class citizens in your own country. The treatment of Coptic Christians by the Muslim majority in Egypt is a disgrace.

….from another Fellow human and one who doesn’t want to live as a dhimmi

Reason,
Your unreasonable definitions on terrorism and vilification demonstrate a lack of understanding of the terms.
Vilification: an expression to defame, slander or speak disparagingly about a person / group.
Terrorism: an act to threaten violence or create extreme fear in another.

Eg: X might attempt to vilify Christianity, but this doesn't cause concern because it's been happening for 2,000 years - it rather shows a perverse mind. However if X meant by words to terrorise Christians X has failed, as we're not afraid.

BD and myself don't consider moderate Muslims like Ash and Ifran terrorists; but within Islam there are those who read the Qur'an and interpret it that they are to kill infidels, and they do. An infidel anyone not follwing Allah's laws.

Read the news, and you will realise Pakistan trained Muslims see killing nonmuslims as their responsibility before Allah. They are taught: First allegiance to the laws of Allah. I have heard Muslims say this week there are reasons to kill those who defame Allah or his prophet.

The Pakistan born Daniel Scott had his nephew murdered in Pakistan in the last 12 months in the name of Allah. Daniel was convicted under the reintroduction of primitive blasphemy law in Victoria, but he did not threaten death to Muslims. This law has reintroduced the State back into rulings on Religious matters. I happen to believe in separation of Church and State. Under this law Salmon Rushdie would be imprisoned in Victoria.

I hear Muslims calling Daniel a Christian fundamentalist terrorist. I know the man; he is a gracious man, who speaks of his experiences with Pakistan Muslims. He may seek justice under law for the death of his nephew; he does not seek vengance by death to the murderers in the name of the Justice of God.

Fellow_Human,
You constantly bring up the doctrine of Trinity, this is not a NT teaching. It is rather a construct of understanding used by the Gentile Roman Church. Jesus clearly taught his unity with God not a diversity - Trinity is a mathmatical construct to satisfy spatial Roman minds.