David Palmer mentions 5 points in the 5th paragraph of his article. These points are somehow meant to illustrate why it should be ok to vilify islam.

i could produce a list of 50 similar points about australian christian groups. Perhaps 10 out of my 50 points would be devoted to christian cults like catch the fire and hillsong.

Does that therefore give me the right to vilify Christianity? Especially given that the English common law offence of blasphemy only applies to Christianity.

I wonder what people would say if the 2 Danny's had made their comments about Jewish Australians and Judaism. I wonder what would have happened if the ECAJ had taken legal action against CTF.

Child abuse increased when the secular community forced the religious to stop suppressing the continuing abuses by the church. The religious can't see beyond their self righteousness, constantly quoting their scripture when they have no answer, then contradicting themselves. Child psychological abuse, put that with the range of sexual abuse within the churches of all persuasions and you have a very high degree of abuse. A much higher percentage that in the secular community. There are millions throughout the world who would testify to the psychological abuse they received through the church. I doubt that the god fearing could understand how a child feels when they are told, that they will go to hell if they aren't good and don't give themselves to god, the demands of the churches/mosques and those ministering religious propaganda. BD if you ban the koran, then you must ban the bible as they both incite violence. It is sad for us all that we can't get a rational debate out of the religious, but when they have no answers, they turn to irrelevant scripture. The introduction of these type of laws will lead to the same place that it always has, when religious opponents begin jockeying for control, before unleashing their violent attacks on each other and us. The more time goes on, the more these evil forces will drag us into religious wars, with no thought for anyone but there self righteous fallacies. After all they are already trying to resurrect blasphemy laws. We should introduce sectarian and non believers vilification legislation, so that we can shut them all up and stop the evil spreading through our country. It won't be long before all major religions push each other to the point where they will lash out in Australia. With the current emphasis of the politicians aligning themselves with the fanatic right of the christian church, it is only just around the corner for us all. After all the rhetoric and spin coming from the halls of power is, prepare yourselves, we are committed to the death.

Bless you, Philo, for the elegant pretence that you misunderstood my post. I suspect you of political aspirations - answering questions that aren't put to you is the skill of a seasoned politician.

I did not say "countries like China is a prime example of social administration without God?", this was an element you yourself injected into the conversation, presumably as some form of straw man. At the same time you blithely ignore the questions on the validity of religion as "the" worldview. Tut tut.

I also notice in an earlier post that you quote the gospel of Matthew. I really would like to know why you ascribe such weight to this document, when as far as anyone can tell it was written some considerable time after the events it is supposed to describe, and largely appears to be a rehash of Mark, with a few embellishments such as the addition of the virgin birth story. What makes it - or the others, for that matter - so authoritative?

Anyone?

JustDan 'You haven’t supported any of your claims with any kind of logical argument....examples based on factual information?'
I'm sorry.. I will use smaller words next time. As I said before, the sexual revolution was a secular humanist/marxist push, essentially started by Marcuse who built upon the secular humanist education that people had been getting since the 30's in america. This Sexual revolution led directly to abortion being legalised (amongst many other things). Since this revolution, the Child abuse RATE has increased around 800% (To argue this is due to more reporting is absurd), The divorce rate rose over 400% (Half of divorces involve children), single parent households have doubled and over 30% of all births are to unmarried women. These trends are common to all countries the more they are secularised (E.g. Europe, england, and australia). This is what happens when you remove any solid basis for morality and teach people to be selfish whilst attempting to remove any influences that actually grow them. All these things are set out in the humanist manifestoes (I.e. the sexual revolution, destroying the traditional family, removing theistic morality, focus on self actualization and self(ishness)).
For other facts, Communism is a clear example of the horrible results of the atheistic worldview when the atheists find they have to force others to give up religion.
As for me 'touting your religion as a world saver is pretty lame.' I never said it was. In fact, I argue strongly that a perfect society is impossible on earth and that any system which attempts to do so will result in a totalitarian state that oppresses and murders its own people.

Alchemist '...understand how a child feels when they are told, that they will go to hell if they aren't good ...[by] those ministering religious propaganda.' You are begging the question. You assume religion is false and so teaching children these is obviously bad. An obvious logical fallayc

You complain about commitment to death and religious wars, but atheism has unleashed far worse on the world that any theistic of pantheistic religion ever has.

The sexual revolution is based on a lack of moral value? Who’s moral values. Christian values? Where’s the proof that theirs are right? Look at Christian history! Christians don’t have the corner on values/ethics. What about Buddhist, Islamic or Krishna values? Could one of these be right? If so, what does each of these have to say on the subject? If you wish to blame all the worlds evils on the lack of faith attributed to your brand of religion, go right ahead, but it does not mean that the world evils are resulting from that. Any of the above mentioned religions (and a wealth of others) could claim likewise. As stated by JustDan, your argument lacks any factual basis. And add communism, abortion rates and any other ‘evil’ you wish to your argument. None of it holds up.

Your version of evil is, like your religion, your version. Try not to impose it upon any one else. Just continue assisting with the anti-religious ammo, please!

And if we are to get philosophical, why isn’t a perfect society possible? Humans aren’t capable of it? So what’s the point of existing? If some must fail, isn’t it unfair to put people in that position? Everyone gets a chance but some must be damned? What kind of a God do you think exists? That is as evil as some of the acts committed on this planet? We can grow as a race and be better – it has nothing to do with the world-view each of us holds. But this thread is not for that discussion.

If it helps you understand the world better, hold to your faith. That is to be applauded. But you have the right to judge yourself, and you alone, by your actions. The only other thing you can do is lead by example, showing a ‘better’ way for those who are looking.

Irfan

Shouldn't you be responding to Mark Milner who kindly answered your earlier question?

Regarding your most recent post, you seem to have strung a number of non sequiters together.

In no way did I seek to promote vilification of Muslims by quoting those five examples - I was simply illustrating the point that I thought Judge Higgins made some mistakes in his judgement.

You are perfectly at liberty to cite 50 examples of Australian Christian groups or individuals. Actually, why don't you put up 5 matching examples to those I have offered - drawn as I have done from Australian newspapers.

As far as Catch the Fire is concerned, I would hold your fire at this stage - as you yourself have said in another forum, the matter is now before the Supreme Court of Victoria.

Catch the Fire and Hillsong, whether you like 'em or not, are associated with the Assemblies of God, the major portion of the Pentecostals, the second largest Christian gouping in Australia after the Catholics in terms of church going. Their President is a member of Heads of Churches in Victoria, along with Catholic and Anglican Archbishops, Moderator of the Uniting Church, etc. Calling them a cult is somewhat gratuitous and insulting (I refrain from using the fashionable but ubiquitous "vilifying").