Garra, I don't think they get any quotes, not even the ones they give from their scriptures. Grey, are you for real, “The sexual revolution, driven by secular humanist (the other main atheistic (worldview) and communist thought, has been responsible for the spread of AIDS. The increase in child abuse, rape, suicide and crime that have accompanied the secularising of western society is also fairly evident.” The sexual revolution started in christian countries, those countries are still christian. Child abuse, there is no better example of child abuse than the christian church. Most people who commit suicide are religiously orientated. Virtually all people in jail for murder within the western world associate themselves with a religion. Secularising of western countries, gave us the freedom to be what we wanted in life, and to have choice. What that did was allow people to explore their beleifs and determine where they stood, in the scheme of things. People fought many devastating wars in the last century to gain our right to be responsible individuals who could expand their knowledge and understanding. The laws that they are introducing are religiously orientated and will put us back under religious control. Religion can only work when it totally suppresses any other ideals, so it will continue to fail. The debate should not be about whether islam or christianity is right, what it should be about, is how we get rid of them both and attain peace in the world for a while. Wow, you religious people sure lose the plot quickly. Both Islam and Christianity preach the total overthrow of any that do not adhere to their dictates, anything else is just window dressing to look like they have a heart. Reality shows us that they are false.

Alchemist, Yes I am for real. This is because I have actually studied history. Although it doesn't take much to show how your own words refute you. When you talk of the sexual revolution starting in christian countries and then talk of how in these countries people were secularised to give them the freedom etc you shoot yourself in the foot. Obviously in these countries, free people used their own free ideas to influence the free country. Guess what...the secular humanists have had a long campaign, including the sexual revolution. Do you have any doubts about the religious beliefs of Freud, Kinsey, Marcuse, Huxley, Freidan, Dewey etc etc etc? Learn something about history before you spout such unplaced amazement.

Clearly you are happy enough to ascribe countries as 'christian' when it suits your purpose and secularized when it doesn't. If this is the sort of 'objectivity' that people like 'JustDan' seem to think springs from atheism, then I am not impressed.

As to child abuse, the church has no higher rate than the rest of society. But this abuse has dramatically increased since the secular humanist founded ACLU got abortion legalised. You are just another in the long line of a loud minority trying to impose your views on the rest of it.

And lets face it Alchemist, you asked for evidence of the poison of atheism, and you have it. Go peddle your lack of accuracy someplace else.

Grey,
You haven’t supported any of your claims with any kind of logical argument. ‘Secularism creates the bad things’ is all you seem to be saying. And can you explain why? Can you give examples based on factual information? Simply saying something doesn’t make it so.

As to your comment regarding child abuse. What has the ACLU and abortion got to do with child molesting in the church? A priest who rapes a child is not involved in abortion. So what made them do it? Besides weakness of spirit and mental illness?

I may not agree with Alchemist on his religious stance but touting your religion as a world saver is pretty lame. The Christian church has had 2000 years to ‘save the world’ yet it seems a little worse of than it was – and some of that blame rests squarely on the shoulders of the churches.

And where do you get the idea that I’m happy to move the goal posts for objectivity? I guess you’re a little insecure and need to blame someone for the fear you feel. See? Now that had no basis either. Not nice to cast aspersions without any basis is it?

On today's ABC radio news it was asserted that literature promoting hate is available in Muslim bookshops in Melbourne and Sydney. Danny Nalliah and Daniel Scot have been taken to task for allegedly making disparaging comments about Muslims and were told to resind their comments. There is no place for subversive literature in Australia. The Muslims who arranged for Nalliah and Scot to have their day in Court, for the sake of consistency, need to ensure that the particular garbage goes.

People who incite violence should not be tolerated, whether they belong to a bikie gang, a neo-nazi political group, or a fringe Muslim group.

Christ said regarding tolerance: Matthew 5: 10 -12, "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 5:11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me."

Verbal persecution by insults and false claims made about the Christian faith has allowed Christians to practise the graces of their religion by expressing tolerance and turning the other cheek. Any law to restrict speech no matter how misguided or offensive denies the development of Christian character. This law places Christians at disadvantage when they wish to practise tolerance rather than litigate.

This law encourages the intolerant to litigate for damages on every issue they feel vilifies them. This engages Judges on making determinations on matters of opinion and motive. This law will cause the intolerant Christian to abandon their faith for the sake of seeking financial damages. This Bill violates the clear teachings of Christ Himself as it encourages litigation. From the Victorian experience, we can see who will and who will not use these laws.
Though for Christians insults and persecution is unpleasant it happens to shape their faith and hone their thought and belief and develop character. To use this law will remove the right to practice the grace of tolerance and will now offer a process at court to seek damage. Such seeking of damages does not represent tolerance but intolerance and maybe motivated by power over another or mere greed.

It is my belief that unless a referendum is held to support such legislation this Law must be repealed, because it incites religious division and gives power to the one who pursues damages. The Australian culture has been built upon graciously turning the other cheek. This legislation will create and heighten division between different religions. This law is offensive to a democratic secular State when a person is not able to express a personal opinion about another religion or world-view without fear of litigation. This law represents the view of a totalitarian Religious State and is not democratic

The alchemist,
Sorry mate, of course you are a man. Only a man thinks like this. "Why do you try to belittle women, you know I am not one. You state, “Does she imagine she has no worldview to introduce to the whole of society?"

What I should have said by removing s and s and change the sex: “Does he imagine he has no worldview to introduce to the whole of society?"
However I am not sure how I have belittled women by changing your sex, unless you have a very low opinion of yourself; or a very high opinion of your mother. From now on I'll recognise you as, "he". Promise!

I note you refer to: "My world view, is based on the reality of the universe, not, a past its use by date fantasy." What does that mean? Does it refer to the religion of Plato animism?

Pericles,
Seems you are having a hard time following logical arguments. You made the statement that: "As with this thread, so it is with the world. Introduce religion, and common sense whistles out of the window." So it with the World, I compared China as a country that operates as a purely secular Nation. No religion is allowed public recognition not even Tibetan Buddaism, so to say your view of religion is the irrational problem of the world; then I say, a nation like China that does not sanction religion is as equally irrational when it comes to recognising individual human dignity