To the discussion on abortion. l am a man so basically l get no real say in the realities of abortion. Whether l have a voice or not is purely at the discretion of those who make their choice about their bodies. As a man, l dont carry the physical responsibility, and from what l can ascertain from the generalised tone of abortion discussion, as a man, my opinion is basically irrelevant because essentially, as a man, l can never understand. Fair enough. lm pretty happy with that. As such l have no real opinion one way or the other. Basically do what you wanna do with your bodies, its none of my business. If you want to drink a bottle scotch every day or drink draino or do whatever to your own body, then fine. No opinion about what you do with your own body.

What interest me is the way people frame their arguments and rationalisations regarding abortion. Its not a life if it is going to be aborted, but it is a growing bundle of joy if its going to term. Its pro-choice if you think abortion should be available. Its pro-life if you think it shouldn't be. Early term ok, late term not so ok. Ok if for health reasons, not ok if not. OK irrespective of anything, and not OK irrespective of nothing. Too many emotive word playing factoids and not enough sanity or clarity.

Returning to this forum after some time doing other things, I am dismayed at some of the judgements being passed here.
Firstly, Bec Morcom's appalling assumptions about the kind of parents women who have had abortions then go on to make, based on nothing more than his/ her own (wishful) observations. He/she would like it to be true, so sees what s/hed like to. As I have already said I had an abortion and then went on to have two much loved and dearly wanted daughters, I cannot help but take his/her remarks personally. I will not attempt to justify or explain my love for my children here, suffice to say they are the dearest part of my life and even at the ripe old ages of 14 and 17, we hug, kiss and show a great deal of physical affection as a family. As someone else pointed out, an emormous number of women have had abortions at some point in their lives.Many parents Bec may admire as parents may, in fact, have had abortions and simply keep it to themselves. This is where pro-lifers like Kathy Woolf come unstuck when they try to argue others are out of touch. Unwanted pregnancy is the spectre that haunts all sexually active women all the time. If a woman has not had to make such a choice, she knows it is more by good luck than good management. Most women, therefore, do not pass judgement on others, because they have all had a scare in their time.
Second, late term abortions are incredibly rare. As an experienced obstetrician said recently, they do not do such terminations lightly. By and large, they are only performed when the mother's life is in danger, or the foetus is really, really severely deformed or when the foetus has died in the womb. Would pro-lifers prefer to see the mother's die in these cases? Or are they prepared to accept that sometimes abortion may be the better option? Nature can be cruel, but do we have to be?

By the time I finished reading this article in the Age I was in tears. Both for the author and his mother. He must have loved her a lot. He must have loved her in a way I can’t even begin to imagine.

http://theage.com.au/news/opinion/my-abortion-would-have-spared-my-mother/2005/07/24/1122143731007.html?oneclick=true

When I went through my abortion, I went through it alone. My then husband would’ve beaten me for being pregnant; he would’ve beaten me for not being pregnant. I had an abortion so that at least it was only me being assaulted. (Yes, I do get the irony in this – please don’t bother with a rant on whether or not I assaulted a foetus).

As a result of my personal experience and after reading the above mentioned article, my questions are as follows:

Where are the men who care so much for the women in their lives; their wives, girlfriends, sisters and, yes mothers, where are the men who love their women enough that they will stand by them and support them?

Where are the men who respect women enough to support them to make decisions that they (men) will never have to live through like women do?

It seems there are those more interested in spreading their genes than loving their women.

I know this is off topic but I have been wondering about the motivation behind men who do not respect their partner’s decisions and the reasons for it. I suspect it is about control.

The motivation for anti-choice women is probably founded in control over others also – there are plenty of anti-choice women who have, themselves, had abortions.

There are those who would argue that religious beliefs are involved – well from what I’ve seen of religion that is all about control as well.

A women's free will, (or access to guy's free willies in this context!) seems to be the key issue in this debate. Society, apparently, has no role in such decisions.

I've said it before: if we as individuals and as a society value people in a holistic way, then putting ourselves in situations where our sexuality is merely a recreational activity that has the potential to move people to the point where they are "emotionally and psychologically unable to accept the idea" - that is, motherhood, and agree that "abortion involves one entity" - excluding the father and the 'potential' child, then, sex and abortion is always about the self, rather than selflessness, an irrational concept in our modern society.

This is why family life is challenged, not for want of relationships, but for want of proper relationships. Anyone with the structural means to support a spouse and children is going on a journey of total selflessness and venturing beyond 'control' and into the realm of providence: another modern voo doo (or don't) in 'advanced' societies.

Sure, families are resource intensive, but, so are outrageous lifestyles of singles. Environmental footprints are not only determined by numbers.

Abortion is the by-product of a society with a lot of other problems. If we can't value life, blobs of cells or otherwise, then what value is anything else? Motherhood (and parental life)is the most noble of all possible vocations, but, we treat it like crap and seek to destroy it at every twist & turn. Society v. economy v. self interest?

All we can do is our best.

I’ve got to agree with you about the control thing Trinity, and you’re right, it is the woman’s choice. Many years ago I went with my then girlfriend to the abortion clinic. We were very young. When we arrived we were greeted at the entrance by a team of banner waiving anti abortion women who lectured us vigorously on the street about the evils of abortion - great counseling - and free – and very loud.

If it wasn’t difficult enough for her beforehand it certainly was after that. It’s a personal thing, we have talked about it once or twice since. I still feel some sadness about it. I’m just thankful that I’ll never have to go there as you have – or as others in here have. It’s probably something men don’t talk about much but hey, I just had to have a say before this thread becomes another extreme religion thing.

hutlen

You can't begin to understand how much your post means to me. I really appreciate your sharing of your experience. And I am impressed that you supported your girlfriend. Yes, it is a sad and traumatic experience.

No doubt the control freaks will take over this asylum very soon so thank you for a moment of compassion.