Timkins, looking at you in a kidney dish from now on. You have deteriorated from being overly sensitive to a tad paranoid. Expect that on on-line opinion when you decide to be totally vile towards the likes of Ambo. I know you're an AMBO,Ambo, but i also figured your moniker, after reading your postings on various sites also stood for something like "Articulate, Metrosexual, Brave, Orator". [Deleted for flaming. Poster suspended for 24 hours.]

Interesting that no one has yet been able to disprove anything I have said regards abortion in Australia, but have just resorted to name calling, flaming etc.

I have updated the draft on the proposed abortion system. Due to some opposition to a charge being laid if someone had 3 or more abortions, I have incorporated a panel who will consider the necessity for 3 or more abortions, (similar to the panels who consider the necessity for late term abortions in some states), and no restrictions on pregnancy/adoptions.

1 Increased research into the reasons for abortion.
2 Public education programs to encourage greater use of more reliable forms of contraception.
3 Government programs to make adoption of children easier.
4 Medicare to fund abortions.
5 Medicare to fund the cost of the pregnancy going to term, if the mother and father agree to adopt out the child (for now, termed pregnancy/adoption).
6 All abortions to be registered, and an application for an abortion must be registered.
7 Compulsory counselling before and after any abortion or pregnancy/adoption.
8 All counselling is to include the known father where possible.
9 Counselling after any abortion or pregnancy/adoption is to include an education program for the better use of contraception by the mother and father.
10 If there is a desire for three or more abortions, then the mother (and father if available) must make application to an abortion panel
11. This abortion panel can order increased counselling, increased contraception education programs, or have persons charged with an offence if believed necessary.
12 Government or private companies to carry out increased research into contraception (eg male pill, RISUG method etc.)

The emphasis would be on reducing unintended pregnancy through increased research and better use of contraception, but if an unintended pregnancy does occur, then the emphasis is on preserving the life of the mother and the child, through increased counselling, adoption, and abortion review processes.

Should the abortion rate not decrease, then an application for an abortion will be considered by the panel when one previous abortion (not two) has occurred.

Timkins "It would be interesting to know how many abortion counselling services also have a general policy of preserving human life as much as possible,"

Why?

Preserving human "life" is first achieved by stopping attempts to reduce a womans "life" to a mere "existence" by enfoprcing her to continue with a pregnancy against her will.

As for the agenda for some "board of abortion" (I have incorporated a panel who will consider the necessity for 3 or more abortion) - total garbage - a political stunt aimed at humiliating women should they dare to disobey your social mantra about abortions.

Maybe we should have a similar panel for women who simply get pregnant - since the biggest issue facing humanity today is the ever increasing number of people on the planet.

Maybe the panel could test their suitability for motherhood - well recalling history - those things were popular in the 1920s-30s - it was called "eugenics". It was an unwarranted and immoral interference by a bunch of knowall, do-good, busybodies into the private lifes of those they considered, for whatever reason, "inferior".

Timkins, your proposed "panel" suffers the same limitations - it reads like a bunch of busybodies assuaging their own inferiority complexes by interfering in the private lives and decisions of other people.

The world has seen many advances in the past 80 years - respect for individuals and disgarding of "eugenics" as a crock of sh*t among them.

Your "panel" deserves "flushing" before it is ever implemented.

Col,
I’m rather suspicious of propaganda terms such as “woman’s choice” or other terms such as “war on terrorism”. Under the propaganda term “war on terrorism”, certain governments now feel it is their right to attack other countries, kill countless civilians and innocent people, while gradually confiscating the hard won rights of individuals within their own countries, so as to maximise their own power and control, (although there are moves now afoot to impeach both Bush and Cheney, for lying so much to the US public).

Similarly “women’s choice” can become a system whereby a war is fought against the voiceless unborn, and it becomes a war where there is minimal accountability or morality, but much brainwashing, propaganda, and exploitation.

If the smokescreen of “women’s choice” is cleared, it is found that up to 50% of sexually active women do not use any type of personal contraception, with many relying on the male condom only, while various studies have shown the male condom to be one of the least reliable methods of contraception. Similarly the rate of female sterilization, is now well below the rate in other comparable countries, and well below the rate of male sterilization.

The situation is now so warped that adoption in this country is almost non-existent, while 1,000’s of women are using publicly funded IVF to become pregnant, when IVF is quite expensive, time consuming and intrusive.

A totally warped situation, with almost no accountability, morality or even logical sense.

There is minimal research in this country into abortion, but studies in other countries have shown that the majority of women do not get to 3 abortions, although a minority will go beyond 3 abortions, (and expect the public to pay for it all).

My proposed system will bring some accountability into the system, and it also emphasises increased research into abortion and contraception, and also increased counselling and contraception education for both mothers and fathers, rather than increased use of brainwashing terms such as “women’s choice”.

How do you think the rate of unintended pregnancies and abortion should be reduced?

Timkins, I might use the term “Womans Choice” only in the context that “abortion” is a procedure which, biologically, cannot effect a man.

Where I use such terms, you are more than welcome to substitute the expression “Individual Choice”.

I am an absolute believer in the idea and ideal that the "individual" is pinnacle unit within society and social structures. Removing the right of individuals to express how their bodies will be used debases them to chattels of society or the state.
Deny a lady the right to determine whether she should remain pregnant or not and you diminish her and make her subordinate to the embryo which is developing within her.
Any rights you or anyone else thinks an embryo has are subordinate to the rights of the first-occupier of the body.

Continuing on this thread,

Your third-party personal demands are subordinate to the demands of the first-party (the woman).

Likewise, the right to Abortion has nothing to do with the desires of other parties to adopt or undergo IVF – your suggestion is a complete “furphy” .

Again you are subjugating the wants and expectations of the first-party, individual, to the demands of third parties within society for a supply of suitably adoptable children.

Research, analyse and extrapolate all you want, in the end the principle of “self-determination” and the sanctity of the individual overrides every and any “social expectation” which your statistics might reveal.

The problem with statistics – they reflect humanity, ignoring the need to interact with humanity.

“Individual Choice” is one of a few paramount measures which defines freedom and life-quality – that you cannot get your head around it and are suspicious of it does not mean others do not understand and value of it.

As for unintended pregnancies – I do not worry nor care about how they could be reduced – their incidence merely reflect the “chaos” which shapes human development but they are not material to that development.
Far more sinister are the meddlers and control freaks who recruit “emotional argument and manipulation” to impose their will, immorally, on other individuals.

Col,
I personally think that abortion is a form of human murder, as the foetus is recognised as being a human foetus, (and not some other type of growth), and also most women who undergo an abortion will say that they recognize the foetus as being a mini-human, but they undergo the abortion anyway. http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~an352208/TAH.html,

As highlighted in earlier postings, women are simply not taking enough responsibility for contraception, sterilization etc, and then trying to hide behind the mantra of “women’s choice”, which is simply a term that is used by women to avoid having to take sufficient responsibility, and avoid having to have any conscience or be accountable for the fact that another human being has just been murdered.

It is very noticeable that if a male does not want a pregnant woman to have the baby and causes her to miscarriage, then he will be charged with manslaughter, but the same woman could have walked down to the abortion clinic one afternoon and had her pregnancy “terminated”. The end result was the same:- the death of the foetus, but who is charged is quite different, all because of “woman’s choice”.

Also interesting is why the “best interest of the child” is rarely mentioned by pro-abortion supporters. Only what is in the “best interests of the mother”.

But perhaps the “best interests of the mother”, is what the “best interests of the child” has always meant.

Our abortion laws are a complete rort. Even pro-abortionists and feminists will say this, if asked over a beer.