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Pro-choice and no-choice : Comments
By Kathy Woolf, published 20/7/2005Kathy Woolf argues Natasha Stott-Despoja is out of step with public opinion on abortion.
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Posted by Timkins, Tuesday, 2 August 2005 12:10:21 PM
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Sorry, I couldn't give a rats what other people's opinions are about my personal decision about my life, my body, my future, my potential child. Opinion polls about whether others approve or not of my reasons - as they are defined by others - is a completely spurious argument.
I am a competent, intelligent, responsible, fully conscious human being, I will decide for myself. If you don't like my decison, argue with me, but do it from a position of respect, not condemnation or judgement or because you presume to "protect" me. The idea of compelling a woman to have a child against her will because 56% of respondents don't think her reasons for not wanting to continue with the pregnancy are good enough, is appalling. Posted by enaj, Tuesday, 2 August 2005 3:24:13 PM
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Sorry enaj but I have to disagree. You are not only making a decision about your body when you are making the decision to have an abortion. You decision affects the life of a defenceless human being as well. Although you may be intelligent and rational doesn't mean that you can't be wrong. To put it bluntly you made your decision when you had sex. Although it may be inconvenient for you to have a child it does not mean that you have the right to murder it.
Intelligent and competent people commit murder. We do not sit down and have an argument with them as to whether they should or shouldn’t have done it. The fact is that murdering another human being is wrong. Abortion is no different. Just because you don’t see the infants body writhing in agony as it is being torn apart piece by piece doesn’t make it any less murder. Sure opinion polls are just opinions, but wrong is wrong and facts are facts and our opinions don’t change that no matter how we justify them. Posted by Boanerges, Tuesday, 2 August 2005 6:39:58 PM
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Boanerges,
Your argument relies on the premise that the foetus is a human being. Something that many educated, informed and very moral people do not believe is the case. If it's not, it's not 'murder'. Posted by Reason, Tuesday, 2 August 2005 7:04:25 PM
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Yes but the grounds on which the argument is made that a foetus is not a child are becoming weaker and weaker. People who argue that a foetus is not child do not rely on science to make that assessment. They rely on the there own wisdom and judgement largely because the alternative to their own point of view can't be true because they do not want it to be true.
Also if it is open to debate as to whether a foetus is human or not why do we err on the side of death. Wouldn't we do better to err on the side of caution, the side of life? There has been many times in history when the masses have been told that something is ok but then later new evidence comes to light to show the effects of what they were doing was disastrous. We look at these events now and think ‘how could they have got it so wrong?’ yet we continue to make the same mistakes. Are we going to wait until someone produces a talking 3 week foetus before we accept that it is human, or can we be brave and choose life now. Posted by Boanerges, Tuesday, 2 August 2005 7:22:17 PM
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Enay, Reason,
I’m sure that pro-abortion supporters use opinion polls, and if money or feminists are involved, I’m totally certain that they will attempt to misuse those polls, by “choice” of wording in the polls etc, as shown in a previous post. But the ultimate in “choice” would be the woman who may have had 9 babies over a number of years, and then buried them in the backyard. See http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5182321,00.html I have also heard of a woman who had 6 abortions, and repeat abortions are on the increase in some countries. While some pro-abortion supporters do think that the abortion rate is too high and should not increase further (ie. presently 10 abortions every hr in Australia), there are minimal suggestions on what to do to decrease that rate of abortion, or to decrease the rate of unintended pregnancy. Normally the only thing suggested is that males “keep it in their pants” type suggestion, but glancing through some women’s magazines recently, sex was mentioned on nearly every page, together with articles such as “64 ways to be sexy” etc, so I think women are seeking more sex. The other usual suggestion is that males should wear a condom, but looking through one of the web-sites suggested in this article, it appears that the condom is the only method of contraception being used 51% of the time (and condoms are not very reliable) So what other suggestions are there for lowering the rate of abortions or unwanted pregnancies Posted by Timkins, Tuesday, 2 August 2005 7:37:07 PM
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“If the wording speaks of "woman’s rights," or her "choice", the majority will answer pro-abortion. If the poll asks about rights of the unborn, a strong majority will answer pro-life.
When "doctor," or "and her physician," or "medical reasons," or "medical decision" is used, pro-abortion answers are almost guaranteed. The same for "health."
But if "abortionist" is used, or if for "social or economic" reasons is used, then a large majority will answer pro-life.
"Terminate her pregnancy" brings a strong pro-abortion answer.
Combined Opinion Polls ABORTION APPROVAL
Life/Health of Mother . . . . . . . . 90%
Rape/Incest . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 75%
Fetal Handicap . . . . . . . . . . . . 65%
Can’t Afford . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . 40%
Too Many Children. . . . . . . . . . 40%
Emotional Strain. . . . . . . . . . . 35%
To Finish School. . . . . . . . . . . . 28%
Not Married . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25%
As Birth Control . . . . . . . . . . . . 16%
Sex Selection . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2%
Note that the reasons approved of by a majority constitute only 1-2% of all abortions done, while those disapproved constituted over 98% of all abortions done
http://www.abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both_39.asp
The last line is important. Only 10% of abortions in Australia are for "physical" reasons, the rest for “emotional" type reasons and "emotional" reasons normally receive lower public approval.