Dear Helen,
A brief note to thank you for an informative and interesting article. Not being a parent I loath to comment on what I see going on around me. But I do feel much of what you have highlighted is very much the truth of the current world. When a society forgives their leaders a lie (or two), what does it say to the future generations.

Perhaps I can liken it to a change in the Qld police force in 1989, when they changed their slogan from 'Firmness with Courtesy' to 'With Honour We Serve'. Though I hold the ideals of honour greatly in my life, I think society now expects service rather than contribution and rights rather than responsibilities.

At any rate, a good article with some worthy points to ponder.

Thankyou,
JustDan

Helen, thoughtful and relevant article - thanks.

I'm not confident that always telling the truth is a good thing, that can provide unnecessary hurt but then slipery slops are not real helpful either.

Two principles I consider core
- The old "Do not bear false witness against your neighbour" line. Any distortion of the truth (direct lie or omission) which is designed to paint an misleading perception of another is out. Some people tell a lot of lies by only telling part of the story.
- Does omitting part of the truth give me an unfair advantage over the other person? There are times I may wish to ommit detail from a response either to protect my privacy or to avoid unnecessary hurt to another (maybe to save my skin). Questions like "What are you thinking?" or "Does my bum look big in this?" are ones which often require a less than full and honest answer.

Life would all be easier if people did not ask some of those questions.

I might choose not to seek out the police to report myself if I notice that I have exceeded the speed limit but will answer honestly if stopped and asked.

That sounds kind of messy. It is not a defence of dishonesty, it is an attempt to have a framework for honesty which allows for privacy and avoids unnecessary hurt without allowing any space for dishonesty for the sake of personal advantage.

R0bert

Do you know why I think adults avoid explaining to children why children shouldn't tell a lie?.

I think its because the adults know that the children nay very well turn around and say "Well you Lie"......children are not stupid and they see the double standards. Adults might find themselves in a sticky situation. Best to avoid the question!.

Adults do that to alot of issues and questions so as to avoid matters and therefore that is what our children learn.

Fascinating article. As a parent myself, I have become convinced that most modern parents no longer aim to develop character or autonomy in their children. Such qualities terrify them, because they associate them with permissiveness and being out of control. They prefer obedience and conformity, an outward appearance of virtue. Many parents seek schools that can deliver what they call "discipline", failing to understand that the only discipline worth having is self-discipline.
Many of my friends with adolescent children have fantasy relationships with them. The children they think they have, the obedient, biddable child they see bears no resemblance to the real child who is getting up to all sorts behind their back. These parents, it seems to me, make a virtue out of living in a fake but comfortable universe. They actively encourage lying and deceit by absolutely freaking out if their kids ever try to tell them the truth. They would actively prefer not to know, and then have the gall to be insufferably smug about it.

A few ideas...

If l believe my lies do they cease to be lies?

If l believe my delusions and denials do they become my reality and therefore truth?

In a world of nosey, voyeuristic, invasive disdain and disrespect for personal privacy and boundaries, is lying the last defence?

Ask no questions... tell no lies?

Sure, they are somewhat esoteric philosophical questions but that is what happens when you start quoting the likes of Kant.

Trade215,

I think there are two elements of truth which your comments highlight; telling the truth, and seeking the truth. If we do not seek the truth then it is easy to deceive ourselves and therefore lie to others with a clear concience. It seems to me that many public figures such as CEOs, politicians and celebrities are able to blatantly lie because they believe some or all of what they are saying. Perhaps lying to oneself (as in the case of enaj's friends) is the worst form of lying.

Postmodernism claims there is no fundamental truth, and reality differs for each one of us, so form takes precedence over substance. Yet deep down many of us we still want to know what the real truth is. Maybe we have become more voyeuristic and invasive of personal privacy precisely because we want to discover the truth behind the facade. Hence the increasing popularity of reality TV and internet expose/conspiracy sites.

I dont know how parents can cultivate the love of truth in their children, but I suspect part of the answer is contained in the saying "if you dont stand for something you'll fall for anything".