Timkins/Ros clearly didn't read the link I posted.

If the sun was a feminist and I said it would rise tomorrow you guys would find a way to deny this.

As I and others have pointed out providing links proves nothing: either you dispute the facts because they do not fit your pro-male stance or you choose to ignore them completely. You really think that these reports of DV are all lies? Check out a womens refuge on a Saturday night.

The fact is men are generally more violent than women -this is not a figment of anyone's imagination.

All people (women and men) should take responsibility for their violent behaviour.

As a previous respondent asked, what are you doing to help victims of domestic violence instead of bleating how unfair everything is for men - take action, put your money where you mouth is (and other cliches). Stop blaming people for your problems.

BTW I don't give a toss whether Timkins has a restraining order against him or not - sounds very defensive is all.

Trinity,
Thanks for the orders of what I have to do, (Eg “take action, put your money where you mouth is (and other cliches). Stop blaming people for your problems.” Etc)

However I’m not too sure what you mean by “take action”, or what “your problems” means. (ie. no elaboration provided)

To reduce domestic violence, reliable facts have to be first established, otherwise much money and resources can be misspent, and domestic violence will not be decreased. However those facts about domestic violence are now difficult to establish, as so much of it is highly suspect.

Getting data from women’s refuges becomes suspect, as they are women’s only refuges, with no males allowed, (and as I have pointed out earlier, it is unlikely that males would report domestic violence or seek intervention orders, because they have so much to loose). Getting data from domestic violence studies becomes suspect, because so many of those studies exclude males. For example:- the last study released by the Australian Domestic Violence Clearing House http://www.austdvclearinghouse.unsw.edu.au/PDF%20files/SHLV.pdf had a steering committee of 14, 13 of which were female. All the people interviewed in that study were female, and all the interviewers were female. Many domestic violence organisations are made up entirely of females, such as WesNet (http://www.wesnet.org.au/) which acts as an umbrella type organisation for other domestic violence organisations, but will only regard domestic violence as being “gender” violence, and not relationship violence, and it is an organisation with no male representation.

So with such a predominance of females within the domestic violence industry, it is no wonder that the data is so often biased against males, and relies heavily on propaganda slogans that are repeated over and over such as “90% of domestic violence perpetrators are male”, or “one in four women will be the victims of domestic violence” etc.

There's an old statistical joke that goes like this:

One in four men are misogynists at some point in their lifetime...

I think one's name is Michael Gray.

Double standards my little misogynist, Timkins. You ordered me about but you don't like it when Trinity tells you to shut your mouth and actually do something positive. Boo Hoo.

This is what real men are doing:

'Pro-feminist men are men who are actively supportive of feminism and of efforts t o bring about gender justice and equality. Some pro-feminist men are involved in political activism. One of the most common areas of involvement is men's violence, and there are men's groups in Australia, the US , Canada, Europe and elsewhere who have this as their focus. Pro-feminist men do anti-violence work with boys and young men in schools, offer sexual harassment workshops in workplaces, run community education campaigns, and counsel male perpetrators of violence, just to name a few common activities. Pro-feminist men also are involved in men's health, activism on pornography, academic research on masculinity, the development of gender equity curricula in schools, and many other areas. This work is sometimes in collaboration with feminists and women's services (such as domestic violence and rape crisis centres).

Other pro-feminist men are not active in public campaigns. Nevertheless, their commitment to pro-feminism takes the form of trying to live in egalitarian and respectful ways in their daily lives - at home, at work and on the street.'

http://onemansweb.org/jan/men/pro-feminist.htm

BTW, in all your rant about how evil feminists are going to rid the world of men, and how you want to see a future of 'artificial wombs' - nearly choked when I read that one - you have omitted or forgotten one important fact. Bet you can't even think of what that is.

l doubt that any discussions or statistics about domestic violence actually have anything to do with violence and a real concern for addressing and reversing its causes. Its is a euphemism for gender politics and 'men this/women that' venting of deep personal frustrations that men and women have with each other.

The posts so far are littered with this type of thinly vieled vitriol.

If the source of the studies are skewed by women then its called feminazi propaganda. If a man points this out he is a misogonist, which l find tediously predictable, boardering on funny. Misogony and misandry is a PATHOLOGICAL HATE of a particular gender. How one can be characterised as pathalogically hateful for challenging a perspective is beyond the abilities of my simple mind. l suspect that the world may be full of misanthropes. Name calling doesn't work on people who can think and those that resort to it lose any remnants of credibility to which they cling.

This discussion seems to be further pushing of the gender divide. These sorts of discussions are about formenting gender inspired division and it is quite effective in its objective.

l am a man and l am getting very weary of the whole 'woman good / man bad' paradigm of modern life. So much so that l find it easier to disengage and avoid situations that will potentially cast me in that light or have a capacity for exploiting me in view of that perception. Staying sane and actually liking myself is more important to me than these silly gender political debates. Although they do make for entertaining distraction in the spirit of snacking on junk food occassionaly.

l suspect that the majority see statistcs and politics for what they are, namely tools of manipulation. After a while we stop listening to the boys and girls who make careers out of crying wolf and eventually all that they have left to do is... cry.

Trade215

I'm sorry if you think I'm some kind of misandrist - I didn't think that I was conveying that. I just am utterly appalled at some of the absurdities regarding women that I read in this forum. I also will not be dictated to as certain posters have tried to do.

If I assert myself I'm regarded as a man-hater and yet, if I don't say anything, then there is no point in me participating in this forum.

On the subject of manipulation, distortion of stats and diversion, there are posters (I'm not sure if they are all male) who have displayed a great deal of skill in obfuscation thus proving Gray's point in ways I don't think he intended. These posters appear to want a return to man = breadwinner, wife = housekeeper. As a successful and independent business woman I find the idea of the man as lord and master utterly repugnant.

I asked Timkins what he has forgotten in all this vitriol and I'll ask you, trade, if you can think of the most important thing about men and women that has not thus far been mentioned?