Kenny has got to be joking when he says, "Moderate Christians tend not campaign against hardline Christians", when in Victoria the Justice and International Mission Unit in the Uniting Church (so called "moderates") has done all it can to see Danny Nalliah and Catch the Fire Ministries, so called "hardline" or more usually "fundementalist", condemned under the Victorian Government's religious vilification laws for remarks made about Islam and Muslims .

Hi All,

Here are some views that hopefully addresses some of the comments

in a logical manner.

* About the media article:
I guess a socially responsible media could have at least either asked the guy logically if what he claimed is right, then why all muslim countries apply death penalty to men who rape then?

My point is simple, the media like to appeal to people's fear rather than thorough investigation of truth. Any muslim who read the Koran knows that it states "men to look down" if they fear temptation". It is a man 's responbility to control his actions and desires.

* ABout muslim sheikhs/ clerics:

The simplicity of Islamic teachings does not need a hierarchy or a structure really but there is guiding bodies (ie Al Azhar Mosque/

Uni where all Fatwas gets reviewed, approved and distributed).

Islam is really a 'flat management' and the relationship is between the person and the creator.

* Fatwas against terror:

Not sure I understand what do you mean.
I don't believe Muslims are confused about whether 'terror' is good or bad. A man cannot be a muslim and killing others let alone civilians. islamic religion growth was through the good peaceful example. The only case for war in Islamic teachings is self/ land
defence.

There are sure some criminals who did and will commit crimes in the name of religion but that immediately disqualifies them from being muslims.

Hitler claimed to be right wing christian and so those who killed thousands of muslim women and chilren in Bosnia, but I am sure no muslim will accuse the christian religion of non peaceful teachings.

Irfan, thank you for your very reasoned and reasonable, and vitally relevant and timely article, a great contribution to cross-cultural understanding and acceptance.

Kenny, I hope moderate Xns do campaign against hardline Xns. I do, and I know others who do, and have for a long time – I remember railing against Joh BP when he was premier of Qld (yes, I'm that old!). People like Joh, and GWB, and JWH (who won't actually commit himself either way, but hops on the bandwagon) who appropriate Xnity for their own purposes, and make claim to political infallibility on that basis (to an even greater extent than the Pope) are a real and very present danger. This is the time-honoured (honoured??) tradition of the “divine right of kings” extending from their “born to rule” mentality. They claim to be Xn and to “pray for guidance”, and ergo they can do no wrong, and make no wrong decisions. Their very certainty of their righteousness is their weakness. Anyone who closes their mind to other options, or the possibility of further information and never has any doubts, troubles me greatly. So too anyone who will not admit a mistake, or fault, or error (no matter how well intentioned at the time of committal), and say “sorry”.

Arjay, why should Muslims have to select one representative to speak on their behalf? Xns don't, as evidenced by the postings on many of these forum threads! Not only between denominations, but even within, as David posted above. Neither do the Liberal, National, Labour, nor any other political party. Human beings of all races, creeds, nationalities, sexes, etc are a diverse lot, in no way homogeneous, and that is our beauty. It is in that diversity our richness lies. A richness which should be explored rather than concealed, or denied, or derided.

Extreme Xns are every bit as dangerous as extreme Muslims, or Hindus, or americans, or australians.

The Aussie Nomad.

It is funny how the defenders of atrocities committed by muslims, are quick to compare them with christians. As if two wrongs make a right, hardly the logic of a balanced individual.

But as with all liberal chest beating, it is much safer to criticise their own culture, as Theo Van Gogh found out...

Oh Davo, please don't tell me you think I am defending atrocities (by or against Muslims, or any other group)? No atrocity anywhere can be defended.

My comparisons were not only with Xns. My point is that extremism is dangerous, and unfortunately, it seems that extremists of all political, religious and cultural persuasions currently hold sway on the world stage. Further, I should explain that extremism can be seen in all camps – the so called right/left dichotomy is that usually propounded, but it can even be found in moderates! Simply because none of us is completely singular in our thinking. We all have shades and facets to our outlooks and insights.

I am more than willing to promote debate on the effects of varying interpretations/understandings of the Koran and/or the Bible with both Muslims and Xns. I would not be on this forum if t'were not so. Unfortunately my studies in the Koran are only rudimentary, nowhere as in depth as the Bible.

For another view of the need for public debate on these issues, see “The Trouble with Islam” by Irshad Manji (ABC/RN: Booktalk 11/09/2004; LNL 04/02/2004; ABC/TV: Enough Rope 30/08/2004). She calls for debate by Muslims and non-Muslims about the public expression and perception of Islam.

I trust this is in keeping with your article Irfan. I'd appreciate your feedback too.

The Nomad.

Nomad,because of the ill feeling and violence perpetrated by many in their community,there is a necessity for them to prove their good will towards,Buddists,Christians,Jews,Hindu's,athiests and agnostists.

No other group has caused such agnst.The onus is not on us to prove our good will.It already exists.The Muslim community either accept the Australian culture or reject it.We will not be dictated to by religious fanatics,confused by double speak,or divided by fear of violence.If you want your freedom,be prepared to fight for it!