The Forum > Article Comments > Justice and the fate of the 'Bali Nine' > Comments
Justice and the fate of the 'Bali Nine' : Comments
By Stuart Rees, published 12/5/2005Stuart Rees asks if we have to co-operate with a justice system which still imposes the death penalty
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Posted by Col Rouge, Monday, 23 May 2005 4:28:19 PM
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Well now, what a mature and intelligent discussion this has developed into...I can't wait for more :-)
Posted by Rainier, Monday, 23 May 2005 4:50:26 PM
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Ambo - good post.
Di & Garra - naughty, naughty - not promoting your cause. Col maybe if you tried rational argument instead dogmatic sledging you wouldn't be called names. Unfortunately, we do have to cooperate with a justice system which still imposes the death penaly - we cooperate with the USA don't we? Could the Feds have done more? Of course, but that's politics folks. Posted by Ringtail, Monday, 23 May 2005 5:13:39 PM
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I found this interesting and relevant to understand intra national jurisdiction in criminal law:
"Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters: Indonesia & Australia In 1996 Indonesia and Australia signed a treaty of mutual assistance in criminal matters. That treaty was given legal force in 1999.1 The Treaty makes it clear that: Assistance may be refused for offences in which the death penalty may be imposed or carried out. Section 8(1A) of the Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters Act 1987 (Cth) (‘the Act’) prohibits the provision of assistance in criminal matters once a person has been charged or convicted of a capital offence, unless the Attorney-General (or Minister for Justice), “having regard to the special circumstances of the case”, is of the opinion that assistance should be granted. The Act does not provide for the refusal of assistance in capital cases at the investigatory stage. This leaves the AFP free to provide information to foreign authorities that will result in Australians (and conceivably foreigners as well) facing capital punishment." http://www.nswccl.org.au/docs/pdf/cpu3.pdf Posted by Rainier, Monday, 23 May 2005 5:33:18 PM
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Garra, welcome to the world of Col Rouge slagging off on you if he doesn't agree with what you say. Whatever you do, don't DALL him names. Otherwise, you'll get called a lot of names which have more than four letters in them, because he is more learned than I! And presumably, has a bigger (dic)tionary. Which he trots out for his postings. I hope he doesn't really talk like this in real life!
Back to the issue of the justice system. If we cooperate with a death penalty system, regardless of the level of law-breaking, we do open up the possibility that we are sending citizens to death without a fair trial backing the accused up. A lot has been said (ad nauseum) about Shapelle's case and we are cutting ourselves up about what the judges are permitting as evidence in her case. Ie weighing the bag et al. In the Indonesian system, often it's easier to declare yourself guilty and go to jail and bribe the guards, rather than declare innocence and risk a death penalty with bugger all evidence your lawyer can introduce. Being fair, people on lower levels can make mistakes, and with the stories coming out about our own baggage handlers, I don't think anyone would really know the full story about any individual's case, unless one was on the jury. There are certain people that say it's cut and dried, being accused equal being guilty, but Col!, I do occasionally channel the Salem witch burnings! Sure you were there, but of course, not tied to the faggots! Let's not support 18th century style trials and convictions in the 21st century. Posted by Di, Monday, 23 May 2005 6:08:16 PM
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Ringtail – when someone calls me a four letter word I respond in a manner they are likely to understand – no point in attempting to elevate their comprehension above the gutter when that is all they demonstrate in their posts.
Oh Di – You are the one casting dispersion – I merely respond in a manner which I assume your sort of person might understand – you know the lower orders of intellects for whom subtlety is beyond understanding and totally wasted. Now – good for you pointing out my typing error – I am sure that made you feel good – of course I could not give a damn – as far as I am concerned you are as good as your vocabulary and rhetoric – and that makes you beneath contempt – keep dishing it out “dah’ling” and I will keep handing it back. Accept responsibility for your postings and understand – when you call people four letter words they are likely to use four letter words back at you (noting “slag” has 4 letters) – but I guess you can count that far and are used to it. Now back to the Bali 9 – which this thread is supposed to be about (noting Ms Corby is being tried and will be judged in a separate proceeding) – Drug mules are wannabe drug lords – whilst they aspire they rarely achieve because they are greedy scum which remain as a stain on the boardwalk lacking the basic intelligence to be more than they are – “mules” – a pack animal – a beast of burden – expendable and of no use to anyone else than the master it has decided to serve. Shoot them and forget them – they are a waste of the air they breath – no second changes – zero tolerance – easy – and save the huge amount of dollars it costs in keeping this filth in prison. They have demonstrated by their lack of ethic that they fail to qualify to participate freely with responsibly minded people. Posted by Col Rouge, Monday, 23 May 2005 6:37:06 PM
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To suggest I would abandon a friend because of their illegal and immoral actions is because you do not know me. It is similar to To suggesting I abandoned my brother for his illegal and immoral actions – let me assure you – I did not.
If someone offends they get punished. First and foremost my friends can rely on me to be honest with them and not pandering to their failings. Probably, unlike you, I would still welcome them into my home and help them to rehabilitate to become productive member of society – you more like would make excuses for their illegal behaviour – simply encouraging them back to a life of corruption but distance yourself from their recidivist demise. As you presume the worst thing about illegal drugs is their illegality – I would suggest a reduction in expected life duration of around 30 years or a state of permanent psychotic delusion and paranoia is worse than the “illegality” of the drugs you commend – pathetic logic – nothing new.
Di – you said “ You are a right wing +#@(“
and that displays the limit of your vocabulary – the gutter outside a bar on a Saturday night is filled with the effluent and essence of you too.
Dall me names all you want – you simply display the limit of your intellect as reflected by the limit of your vocabulary – now run away and get an education before you irritate me and I start to treat you in the manner you so richly deserve.
Ultimately, I would rather be considered a “right wing +#@(“ than a “dirty mouthed slag”.