Ian,
It is obvoius your view of god is lesser than the complex person of man and lesser than the creator of the human mind. You are not adventerous enough to believe in a mind greater than yours, and whose design we are discovering more of each day. Do you believe you are a series of random accidents or the product of a plan and design? Without a purpose it is all very pointless, and life has no meaning. What a depressing thought.

Philo, we both know that it is pointless trying to convince each other on these points. I do not feel that my life is meaningless and depressing, you do, let's leave it at that.

I have no difficulty at all with believing in a mind greater than my own: Shakespeare being the first example that springs to mind. I do not, however, believe that he created the world.

The complexity of the universe, and especially of life, fascinates me. I just find it rather sad and reductive to put it all down to "design" rather than seriously trying to understand it.

Agree Ian,the concept of god is infantile,our understanding of the universe is at best basic.God is only a father figure,yet we assume that all evoultion follows that which happened on Earth.

Quote" Agree Ian,the concept of god is infantile,our understanding of the universe is at best basic. God is only a father figure,yet we assume that all evoultion follows that which happened on Earth."

Posted by Arjay

Derogatory words flow easy! It is easy to dismiss without thought the aspirations that some have of higher reality. Some minds perceive order and purpose that indicates deliberate design that others merely dismiss as a series of accidental reactions - brainless thinking.

Philo, Arjay was expressing an opinion - he wasn't being derogatory at all. The image of god throughout all religions is extremely patriachal, I too find such a concept very infantile. Before you claim I am sexist I would find a totally matriachal god as infantile as well.

As Ian says
"The complexity of the universe, and especially of life, fascinates me. I just find it rather sad and reductive to put it all down to "design" rather than seriously trying to understand it."

This is as far from 'brainless thinking' as you are from agreeing to disagree with posters such as Arjay and Ian.

If your beliefs provide you with comfort and a sense of purpose than I am not going to deride you for that. However, to insult the intelligence of posters who hold a different world view to you IS infantile.

If you want to make converts to your POV ever thought of using a little honey?

When I was a 14 year old, of infantile mind I concluded that God was merely a father figment of the adult male mind; until I gained a deeper understanding of spiritual reality. Yes the mind is part of that spiritual reality. Because the creations of the mind are not physical or even chemical, does not mean the will is not real or spiritual, though both show observeable physical and chemical activities in the body. The fact that atheist wish to reduce all direction to random accidental events, I wish to believe in purposeful design and principles of behaviour (law) that show there is deliberate design by a mind even as reflected in our own mind. Of course? atheists believe the mind is a mass of tissue that has random chemical activity that is unrelated to any purpose or principles of design. As I stated - brainless thinking.