Garra
it might surprise you but I tend to take a similar approach to JW's and Mormons. (not the invite to a satanic ritual or orgy though)....

We don't come here invading anyone's space, we contribute freely. Its just that you dont agree with us :) and that's your personal choice.

blessings

Kenny,
Nations call themselves “Christian” but they have enshrined Mosaic Law, rather than the grace principles Jesus taught. Jesus taught the divine character graces such as, “love your enemy” as evidence of being a child of the kingdom of God. Nowhere in the New Testament is the use of violence or death encouraged against unbelievers. Unlike the Qur’anic theme: god hates infidels and this calls for jihad. True followers of Christ do not kill offenders of the divine law, because they believe all men have violated the divine law, and now God offers all forgiveness and new-life. Unfortunately the grace-based teaching of Christ of the first 300 years AD gave way to the Holy Roman Empire’s syncretised version of Christianity.

A religion or philosophy that enshrined absolutes within State law will punish violators by death (eg a woman caught in adultery must be stoned under Mosaic and Shari’ah law, whereas Jesus released her saying, “go and sin no more”). Law doesn’t give life and freedom from its penalty, forgiveness is a grace offered by society. Jesus death as punishment announced the new covenant atonement for violation of the divine law. When Christians formulate State law, they should have in their minds the concept of true repentance and rehabilitation, rather than revenge as justice causing actual or financial pain or death. Citizens may desire lesser penalties for tax or road violations, but when they suffer injury or pain they may expect equal injury or pain as justice.

Taliban Islamist follow the Shari’ah law and endeavour to enforce a perfect religious State in the Earth according to what they believe are divine absolutes. They equate divine law as equivalent to the State law. Whereas Christians believe the punishment of God is finally applied upon unatoned violation of the divine law after death when we stands alone before God and justify attitudes and deeds. That is why Christian faith must be personal and not enforced as totalitarian law. Because the primary character of God is: sacrifical love and forgiveness available for all, rather than punishment being the basis of State law

Law v Grace
The apostle Paul, a convert to Christ from Judaism, who had formerly killed followers of Christ with the endorsed authority of his Judaist religion, wrote the following passage after his conversion. He himself was ultimately put to death under Roman law upon false charges brought by the Judaists.

Galatians 5: 13 "Brothers you were called for freedom; but do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh, but through love be servants of one to another. 14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: You shall love thy neighbor as yourself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that you are not consumed by bitterness. 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh conflicts with the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in battle the one with the other; so that you may not do the things that you should. 18 But if you are lead by the Spirit of God, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these: fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousies, wraths, factions, divisions, parties, 21 envy, drunkenness, reveling, and such like; of which I forewarn you, even as I did forewarn you, that they who practise such things do not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 meekness, self-control; against such there is no law. 24 And they that are of Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with the passions and the lusts. 25 If we live by the Spirit, by the Spirit we shall also walk"

The apostle Paul, a convert to Christ from Judaism, who had personally killed followers of Christ with the endorsed authority of his Judaist religion, wrote the following passage after his conversion. He himself was ultimately put to death under Roman law upon false charges brought by the Judaists.

Galatians 5: 13 Brothers you were called for freedom; but do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh, but through love be servants of one to another. 14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: You shall love thy neighbor as yourself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that you are not consumed by bitterness. 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh conflicts with the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in battle the one with the other; so that you may not do the things that you should. 18 But if you are lead by the Spirit of God, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these: fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousies, wraths, factions, divisions, parties, 21 envy, drunkenness, reveling, and such like; of which I forewarn you, even as I did forewarn you, that they who practise such things do not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 meekness, self-control; against such there is no law. 24 And they that are of Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with the passions and the lusts. 25 If we live by the Spirit, by the Spirit we shall also walk

Ah boaz, boaz

What am I to do with you boy? Cliff Wilson is a complete & utter fundie. TOTALLY unable to use the inductive method he was taught when it would challenge his theological position.

I've already said I don't trust fundies as far as I can throw them. Your answer? Propose the thoughts of another fundie! But that's fundie logic (?) for you. :D By the way love the analogy of Me giving up fundamentalism with an ex-smoker giving up smoking. Especially since I would argue both smoking & fundamentalism are poisonous to the person indulging.

Dear Aslan

My sincere apologies for lumping you in with Boaz here. It's just that your posts sounded so much like the tripe I was spouting 30 years ago.

If you're an interested layman, try reading "It aint's necessarily so..." by Matthew Sturgis (it is an excellent popularisation of modern archaeology). Or try "Testament" by John Romer. Both will explain that archaeological concensus holds the position that archaeological evidence & the bible don't agree most of the time. For example when Joshua crossed the jordan he & his forces conquered Jericho & AI according to scripture. But both cities were abandoned by Joshua's time.

Bosk,

Your logic seems to be: if written by a fundamentalist who believes their argument, it can't be so; if written by a secularist who believes their argument, it must be so.

The writer does not matter but their arguments, and their source, do.

I am afraid you are making the technician appear the superior logician.

But you had already lost me when you started trotting out those degrees. Pseudonyms are a great leveller; they allow the professor to argue with the milk-maid - we know nothing of the poster except their argument. Now we know something of you and I, for one, would rather not,

Pez