Part Two

The following issues were raised by John:

• How should Christians respond to the “war on terror” and the events on September 11 2001? Wallis sides with other progressive commentators in promoting multi-lateralism, international co-operation, criminal proceedings (rather than military attacks) and addressing the underlying causes, such as poverty and injustice.
• It is government by the rich; it is legal corruption; and it is clearly a gross injustice that Christians need to work against.
• Not only should Christians be taking up environmental leadership, they should also find the common ground with these other green groups - rather than avoid environmental issues because of the religious differences.
• Surely both sides can work together to reduce the rate (abortion) by reducing poverty, supporting single mothers and other actions that all can agree on. This argument must apply equally well in our Australian context.
• Campolo has proposed that the civil and religious aspects of marriage be separated. The civil union, conferring certain legal rights, can be all-inclusive. Churches would then be free to provide a religious blessing to those unions fitting within their own definitions of marriage.

Excellent ideas all.

Until we stop squabbling between ourselves over who is right/wrong more moral or whatever we are doomed to perpetuate the injustices of the past as we are doing now.

Naïve? Try civilised. There is nothing ignorant at desiring a more peaceful equitable world.

Try acceptance instead of judgement people – I fear that it is too late if the many derisive, abusive posts that appear regularly on this website is any indication.

However, hope springs eternal………..

Ringtail,
Please spell out how a talkfest could influence North Korea to abandon their nuclear warhead developments! Please tell us how Saudi Arabia will abandoned their poliferation of anti-American hate litrature in Muslim schools in America. Please tell us why some Muslims in Indonesia, a Muslim Country, want a seperate State. Why they will kill ordinary Indonesian Government troops to secure such? It is obvious national passions and religious convictions run deeper than mediated reason and argument.

As far as weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, I have in my posession copies of the UN official reports on the evidence of the existence of such, and the sattelite photographic evidence shows their dismanteling and removal several months before the Coalition invasion. It was the impact of the real threat by the USA that caused them to be removed. All the UN talking had no effect upon Saddam's denial or his agreement to remove them. All United Nations reports listed they were there at one stage, the fact they were not found post invasion does prove he never had such capacity. The Kurds can verify such weapons, or are we to believe Saddam over Kurdish bodies. We would all love a World where people would listen and act on humanitarian reasons. But when you have Hitler believing in racial supremacy, and religious exclusivists believing their religion must rule the World; tell me how you are going to have a reasoned conversation.

I can see this discussion getting bogged down about war/iraq/wmd's, when the article is about so much more.

I don't know why people who disagree always demand magic solutions to their questions. No one said its easy. Talk/compromise does work. War should always be the last resort and it hasn't been the case in Iraq. Also, Phil, if you have "in your posession" documents proving the existence of WMD's (either now or in the past) how come no one else has? How come this is the first we've heard about it? And that is all I am saying to the pro war contingent.

Back to the article, which is about a way in which the christian church can engage with many issues and bring about a positive method of working together with people of a variety of beliefs. How can anyone think that is so wrong - well I guess they're from the Right. I'm not so sure about the Left not getting it as I think I do. I am more than happy to work with religious people - I believe in live and let live after all. Apparently that makes me a leftie.

Any way, John best religious topic I've read on this web site.

Philo, the North Korean's like everyone else will respond to the offer of economic wellbeing. The west needs to make it worth their while to abandon nuclear weapon development, while (and this is important) ensuring that they feel that the decision was their own.

This is actually what seems to be happening according to the more savvy commentators. Nth Korea is making big agressive noises but the offer of more aid - without stings attached - is what they really want.

Saudi Arabians are rilly rilly pissed off with the US because it supports their totally corrupt royal family and again, the ordinary Saudi in the street has no hope aspiring to economic success.

The problems in Indonesia are also the result of the corruption of their government but they are being ameliorated by reason and talking. It does take time but then so does invading a country like Iraq. That has not been an instant success, surely.

David Boaz If God's revealed standards are so bloody obvious why don't we all see the same things when we read the bible?

What makes you such an expert on interpreting the different forms of 'abomination'? I keep asking you this but never get a rational answer.

All the bible quotes you provide seem to me to indicate that you have got it all wrong.

Why don't you 'be TRANSFORMED by the renewal of your minds"..... Your mind sure needs renewal.

You seem to think that 'our culture' is something rigid and unchanging. Which culture do you imagine that people are attacking - the one we had in the 1950's or would you go back even earlier? When was your golden era?

Boazdavid, my assessment of the scriptures, is no more lacking in credibility than your understanding of faith and grace. Snide references to "New Testament Introduction-101" add nothing to this discussion, and frankly what you call evidence I call self-serving, albeit interesting literature (well, some parts are interesting; others are not). Only to those who have faith, does the bible seem to amount to "evidence".

And as others point out, interpretation and selective quoting does rather blemish the evidentiary integrity of the bible (new or old testaments, or both - take your pick).

I don't believe in a vengeful God, or a god who despises the lives that some people are born into, or chose to live. I think the God whom you apparently thrill to imagine being repulsed by the sight of men having sex, is the creation of men. A few men. I'm pretty sure that most people who have sex that you disapprove of boazdavid, are indifferent to you and your lifestyle. There is no "agenda" other than to hope to be able to live without interference by strangers with strange obsessions about the sex lives of others. Yours is an obsession, boazdavid. It is difficult to find room in such a heart in which you might find faith of a more loving and inclusive kind, but perhaps in time you will.